From emcmillan64 at shaw.ca Thu Aug 2 22:24:34 2007 From: emcmillan64 at shaw.ca (Elaine McMillan) Date: Thu, 02 Aug 2007 22:24:34 -0700 Subject: [tirrigh-heralds] General Heraldry Questions Message-ID: <000001c7d58e$999fd690$650b4746@D3RBR521> Greetings, Who do we ask about general heraldry questions? For example, about giving permission for someone from another Kingdom to conflict with our arms/devices? Regards, Elena de Maisnilwarin From bear_necessities at telus.net Fri Aug 3 00:31:39 2007 From: bear_necessities at telus.net (Nancy Carr Zupanic) Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2007 00:31:39 -0700 Subject: [tirrigh-heralds] General Heraldry Questions In-Reply-To: <000001c7d58e$999fd690$650b4746@D3RBR521> References: <000001c7d58e$999fd690$650b4746@D3RBR521> Message-ID: <229ED0FC13074469B4BDDEB59422B0C6@MomPC> Elena wrote: > Who do we ask about general heraldry questions? For example, about giving > permission for someone from another Kingdom to conflict with our > arms/devices? This list is a good place to ask general and specific questions. As for your sample question, if someone has asked you permission to conflict, and you would like to offer that permission, you can go to the Laurel Education page - http://www.sca.org/heraldry/laurel/education.html - where you will find a standard Letter of Permission To Conflict. It is a good guideline letter. You would complete it with the needed info, then send the letter to the person or their representative who contacted you asking for permission to conflict. Hope this helps! Doireann From emcmillan64 at shaw.ca Mon Aug 6 16:50:59 2007 From: emcmillan64 at shaw.ca (Elaine McMillan) Date: Mon, 06 Aug 2007 16:50:59 -0700 Subject: [tirrigh-heralds] General Heraldry Questions In-Reply-To: <229ED0FC13074469B4BDDEB59422B0C6@MomPC> Message-ID: <000f01c7d884$a3d8de10$650b4746@D3RBR521> I didn't intend to join the list. I was looking at the Tir Righ Online Tracking System and it says "If you have any questions, please send us mail at collegeofheralds at tirrigh.org"). Since I had a question, I sent the email. Rather unexpectedly, I received an email saying I'd been added to the list... That aside - my question was about granting permission to conflict. I discovered recently that a few years ago there was a submission in another Kingdom which conflicted with my arms. As the submitter lives quite distant, it's unlikely we'd ever be at the same event, so I would have given permission to conflict. Since the submitter never contacted me, I never had the opportunity. So I was wondering how the system worked. If someone submits a device, and it conflicts, is it standard procedure to contact the "original" and ask for permission? Or is it more common to work with the submitter to change their device so they can register their device? Is there some mechanism to setup in advance that conflicts are permitted as long as the submitter is from another Kingdom? Regards, Elena de Maisnilwarin -----Original Message----- From: collegeofheralds-bounces at tirrigh.org [mailto:collegeofheralds-bounces at tirrigh.org] On Behalf Of Nancy Carr Zupanic Sent: August 3, 2007 12:32 AM To: collegeofheralds at tirrigh.org Subject: Re: [tirrigh-heralds] General Heraldry Questions Elena wrote: > Who do we ask about general heraldry questions? For example, about > giving permission for someone from another Kingdom to conflict with > our arms/devices? This list is a good place to ask general and specific questions. As for your sample question, if someone has asked you permission to conflict, and you would like to offer that permission, you can go to the Laurel Education page - http://www.sca.org/heraldry/laurel/education.html - where you will find a standard Letter of Permission To Conflict. It is a good guideline letter. You would complete it with the needed info, then send the letter to the person or their representative who contacted you asking for permission to conflict. Hope this helps! Doireann _______________________________________________ Collegeofheralds mailing list Collegeofheralds at tirrigh.org http://mail.tirrigh.org/mailman/listinfo/collegeofheralds_tirrigh.org From Caitrina at shaw.ca Mon Aug 6 17:14:12 2007 From: Caitrina at shaw.ca (Caitrina Sable Loat) Date: Mon, 06 Aug 2007 17:14:12 -0700 Subject: [tirrigh-heralds] General Heraldry Questions In-Reply-To: <000f01c7d884$a3d8de10$650b4746@D3RBR521> References: <229ED0FC13074469B4BDDEB59422B0C6@MomPC> <000f01c7d884$a3d8de10$650b4746@D3RBR521> Message-ID: <006e01c7d887$e54c0ea0$afe42be0$@ca> It's been my experience that the general practice is to work around the conflict. I have only 3 clients that were in conflict with someone else who we've opted to try and track the other person down for permission to conflict. One client was successful but the other two came up against brick walls. Mainly the person(s) they were in conflict with hasn't been seen or heard from in 10+ years. I'm interested in hearing what experiences others have. Caitrina Sable Loat -----Original Message----- From: collegeofheralds-bounces at tirrigh.org [mailto:collegeofheralds-bounces at tirrigh.org] On Behalf Of Elaine McMillan Sent: Monday, August 06, 2007 4:51 PM To: 'Nancy Carr Zupanic'; collegeofheralds at tirrigh.org Subject: Re: [tirrigh-heralds] General Heraldry Questions I didn't intend to join the list. I was looking at the Tir Righ Online Tracking System and it says "If you have any questions, please send us mail at collegeofheralds at tirrigh.org"). Since I had a question, I sent the email. Rather unexpectedly, I received an email saying I'd been added to the list... That aside - my question was about granting permission to conflict. I discovered recently that a few years ago there was a submission in another Kingdom which conflicted with my arms. As the submitter lives quite distant, it's unlikely we'd ever be at the same event, so I would have given permission to conflict. Since the submitter never contacted me, I never had the opportunity. So I was wondering how the system worked. If someone submits a device, and it conflicts, is it standard procedure to contact the "original" and ask for permission? Or is it more common to work with the submitter to change their device so they can register their device? Is there some mechanism to setup in advance that conflicts are permitted as long as the submitter is from another Kingdom? Regards, Elena de Maisnilwarin -----Original Message----- From: collegeofheralds-bounces at tirrigh.org [mailto:collegeofheralds-bounces at tirrigh.org] On Behalf Of Nancy Carr Zupanic Sent: August 3, 2007 12:32 AM To: collegeofheralds at tirrigh.org Subject: Re: [tirrigh-heralds] General Heraldry Questions Elena wrote: > Who do we ask about general heraldry questions? For example, about > giving permission for someone from another Kingdom to conflict with > our arms/devices? This list is a good place to ask general and specific questions. As for your sample question, if someone has asked you permission to conflict, and you would like to offer that permission, you can go to the Laurel Education page - http://www.sca.org/heraldry/laurel/education.html - where you will find a standard Letter of Permission To Conflict. It is a good guideline letter. You would complete it with the needed info, then send the letter to the person or their representative who contacted you asking for permission to conflict. Hope this helps! Doireann _______________________________________________ Collegeofheralds mailing list Collegeofheralds at tirrigh.org http://mail.tirrigh.org/mailman/listinfo/collegeofheralds_tirrigh.org _______________________________________________ Collegeofheralds mailing list Collegeofheralds at tirrigh.org http://mail.tirrigh.org/mailman/listinfo/collegeofheralds_tirrigh.org From jharcus at prcn.org Mon Aug 6 20:43:27 2007 From: jharcus at prcn.org (Judy Harcus) Date: Mon, 06 Aug 2007 20:43:27 -0700 Subject: [tirrigh-heralds] General Heraldry Questions In-Reply-To: <006e01c7d887$e54c0ea0$afe42be0$@ca> References: <229ED0FC13074469B4BDDEB59422B0C6@MomPC> <000f01c7d884$a3d8de10$650b4746@D3RBR521> <006e01c7d887$e54c0ea0$afe42be0$@ca> Message-ID: <46B7EA5F.9050401@prcn.org> One of my client's submissions was returned by Laurel for conflict - with someone who had registered only a few months before. The Lions Blood Herald at the time assisted me in tracking down the person (which was a lot easier since it was recent) and we got permission to conflict and my client's heraldry was registered. I managed to track down someone who was in contact with the owner of conflicting heraldry in a separate case (the owner of the heraldry being elderly and in an institution) but although the person I contacted thought he could get permission for me, I never did get the letter so we had to look at something different in that case. The older the conflicting registration, the less likely you are to track the person down but I think it's worth a try. You could try contacting the kingdom herald where the device was registered from and see if they can track down the person. Try Googling the person's name (that's how I found the second person). Sometimes you luck out and you find them mentioned on their branch website or somewhere that lists their local branch (which narrows the search down a lot). It should be mentioned that although many people will be quite willing to allow you to conflict, others won't and some can't be bothered to write a letter of permission. So you may also want to think about other options. Good luck! Alicia le Wilfulle False Isle Pursuivant Caitrina Sable Loat wrote: >It's been my experience that the general practice is to work around the >conflict. I have only 3 clients that were in conflict with someone else who >we've opted to try and track the other person down for permission to >conflict. One client was successful but the other two came up against brick >walls. Mainly the person(s) they were in conflict with hasn't been seen or >heard from in 10+ years. I'm interested in hearing what experiences others >have. > >Caitrina Sable Loat > >-----Original Message----- >From: collegeofheralds-bounces at tirrigh.org >[mailto:collegeofheralds-bounces at tirrigh.org] On Behalf Of Elaine McMillan >Sent: Monday, August 06, 2007 4:51 PM >To: 'Nancy Carr Zupanic'; collegeofheralds at tirrigh.org >Subject: Re: [tirrigh-heralds] General Heraldry Questions > >I didn't intend to join the list. I was looking at the Tir Righ Online >Tracking System and it says "If you have any questions, please send us mail >at collegeofheralds at tirrigh.org"). Since I had a question, I sent the email. >Rather unexpectedly, I received an email saying I'd been added to the >list... > >That aside - my question was about granting permission to conflict. > >I discovered recently that a few years ago there was a submission in another >Kingdom which conflicted with my arms. As the submitter lives quite distant, >it's unlikely we'd ever be at the same event, so I would have given >permission to conflict. > >Since the submitter never contacted me, I never had the opportunity. > >So I was wondering how the system worked. If someone submits a device, and >it conflicts, is it standard procedure to contact the "original" and ask for >permission? Or is it more common to work with the submitter to change their >device so they can register their device? > >Is there some mechanism to setup in advance that conflicts are permitted as >long as the submitter is from another Kingdom? > >Regards, > >Elena de Maisnilwarin > > >-----Original Message----- >From: collegeofheralds-bounces at tirrigh.org >[mailto:collegeofheralds-bounces at tirrigh.org] On Behalf Of Nancy Carr >Zupanic >Sent: August 3, 2007 12:32 AM >To: collegeofheralds at tirrigh.org >Subject: Re: [tirrigh-heralds] General Heraldry Questions > > >Elena wrote: > > >>Who do we ask about general heraldry questions? For example, about >>giving permission for someone from another Kingdom to conflict with >>our arms/devices? >> >> > >This list is a good place to ask general and specific questions. > >As for your sample question, if someone has asked you permission to >conflict, and you would like to offer that permission, you can go to the >Laurel Education page - http://www.sca.org/heraldry/laurel/education.html - >where you will find a standard Letter of Permission To Conflict. It is a >good guideline letter. You would complete it with the needed info, then >send the letter to the person or their representative who contacted you >asking for permission to conflict. > >Hope this helps! > >Doireann > > >_______________________________________________ >Collegeofheralds mailing list >Collegeofheralds at tirrigh.org >http://mail.tirrigh.org/mailman/listinfo/collegeofheralds_tirrigh.org > > > >_______________________________________________ >Collegeofheralds mailing list >Collegeofheralds at tirrigh.org >http://mail.tirrigh.org/mailman/listinfo/collegeofheralds_tirrigh.org > > >_______________________________________________ >Collegeofheralds mailing list >Collegeofheralds at tirrigh.org >http://mail.tirrigh.org/mailman/listinfo/collegeofheralds_tirrigh.org > > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tierna.britt at gmail.com Tue Aug 7 09:57:58 2007 From: tierna.britt at gmail.com (Britt) Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2007 09:57:58 -0700 Subject: [tirrigh-heralds] General Heraldry Questions In-Reply-To: <000f01c7d884$a3d8de10$650b4746@D3RBR521> References: <229ED0FC13074469B4BDDEB59422B0C6@MomPC> <000f01c7d884$a3d8de10$650b4746@D3RBR521> Message-ID: <232740310708070957n4167f417hd6db2bb6fcdf9da4@mail.gmail.com> On 8/6/07, Elaine McMillan wrote: > I didn't intend to join the list. I was looking at the Tir Righ Online > Tracking System and it says "If you have any questions, please send us mail > at collegeofheralds at tirrigh.org"). Since I had a question, I sent the email. > Rather unexpectedly, I received an email saying I'd been added to the > list... Keep it, and when you're done with us, unsubscribe. :) In the meantime, having you subscribed to the list is a good way to keep you involved in the dialogue actively so you're not receiving information filtered through an editer and can ask questions as they come up. > That aside - my question was about granting permission to conflict. It's up to the person who discovers they're in conflict to decide whether or not to request permission. Sometimes they do, sometimes they also decide that if it's that close they'd prefer a design that isn't in conflict and truly unique. Having had a Trimarian move into our shire with a design all but identical to someone already in the branch who had considered going for permission since 'they're so far away we'll never even meet' was an amusing reminder of the fact that the Known World is a pretty small place when you factor in all the moving a person might do in their lifetime for purposes of family and career. Likewise did someone from Prince Edward Island reside in Dragon's Mist for a time and decide that international boundaries were no boundaries at all heraldically. :) Anyway, the person returned for conflict might well have redesigned something completely different from the armory that had been in conflict with yours. That's not at all uncommon, with the next submission being radically different from the first. It is very kind of you to inquire like this. You're now on the heraldic radar as someone approachable should another come up who might make that request. Standard procedure for seeking permission includes contacting the SCAHRLDS mailing list and directly contacting the submission herald in the kingdom the conflicting armory was registered from. This allows local, private communication initially so that privacy is retained until such time as permission is given and the letter sent. So if someone is looking for you, they will probably have their herald contact Lions Blood. If you've moved since registration, Lions Blood can ask the ATH and Tir Righ heralds mailing lists for news of you, can contact kingdom and see where your Crier is sent (Seneschals are friends of the heralds in finding people), and can use other mailing lists and information to find you. The OP is always useful, since it lists branches through which awards are received, as well. We have a network. Is it any wonder that in period heralds were often used as spies? :) - Teceangl, former Lions Blood Herald From quentin at shittimwoode.org Tue Aug 7 16:08:36 2007 From: quentin at shittimwoode.org (Quentin Martel) Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2007 16:08:36 -0700 Subject: [tirrigh-heralds] General Heraldry Questions In-Reply-To: <000f01c7d884$a3d8de10$650b4746@D3RBR521> References: <229ED0FC13074469B4BDDEB59422B0C6@MomPC> <000f01c7d884$a3d8de10$650b4746@D3RBR521> Message-ID: <003c01c7d947$e7b85070$6900a8c0@laptop> I'll get the settings updated for the mailing list itself. It's supposed to accept non-spam from non-members, but apparently there's a setting that needs to be updated. Sorry about that! - Quentin Silver Yale -----Original Message----- From: collegeofheralds-bounces at tirrigh.org [mailto:collegeofheralds-bounces at tirrigh.org] On Behalf Of Elaine McMillan Sent: Monday, August 06, 2007 4:51 PM To: 'Nancy Carr Zupanic'; collegeofheralds at tirrigh.org Subject: Re: [tirrigh-heralds] General Heraldry Questions I didn't intend to join the list. I was looking at the Tir Righ Online Tracking System and it says "If you have any questions, please send us mail at collegeofheralds at tirrigh.org"). Since I had a question, I sent the email. Rather unexpectedly, I received an email saying I'd been added to the list... That aside - my question was about granting permission to conflict. I discovered recently that a few years ago there was a submission in another Kingdom which conflicted with my arms. As the submitter lives quite distant, it's unlikely we'd ever be at the same event, so I would have given permission to conflict. Since the submitter never contacted me, I never had the opportunity. So I was wondering how the system worked. If someone submits a device, and it conflicts, is it standard procedure to contact the "original" and ask for permission? Or is it more common to work with the submitter to change their device so they can register their device? Is there some mechanism to setup in advance that conflicts are permitted as long as the submitter is from another Kingdom? Regards, Elena de Maisnilwarin -----Original Message----- From: collegeofheralds-bounces at tirrigh.org [mailto:collegeofheralds-bounces at tirrigh.org] On Behalf Of Nancy Carr Zupanic Sent: August 3, 2007 12:32 AM To: collegeofheralds at tirrigh.org Subject: Re: [tirrigh-heralds] General Heraldry Questions Elena wrote: > Who do we ask about general heraldry questions? For example, about > giving permission for someone from another Kingdom to conflict with > our arms/devices? This list is a good place to ask general and specific questions. As for your sample question, if someone has asked you permission to conflict, and you would like to offer that permission, you can go to the Laurel Education page - http://www.sca.org/heraldry/laurel/education.html - where you will find a standard Letter of Permission To Conflict. It is a good guideline letter. You would complete it with the needed info, then send the letter to the person or their representative who contacted you asking for permission to conflict. Hope this helps! Doireann _______________________________________________ Collegeofheralds mailing list Collegeofheralds at tirrigh.org http://mail.tirrigh.org/mailman/listinfo/collegeofheralds_tirrigh.org _______________________________________________ Collegeofheralds mailing list Collegeofheralds at tirrigh.org http://mail.tirrigh.org/mailman/listinfo/collegeofheralds_tirrigh.org From quentin at shittimwoode.org Wed Aug 22 16:26:59 2007 From: quentin at shittimwoode.org (Quentin Martel) Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2007 16:26:59 -0700 Subject: [tirrigh-heralds] FW: [antir-heralds] New Lions Blood Herald as of September Crown Message-ID: <02e201c7e514$07f8f010$6900a8c0@laptop> Hear ye! Hear ye! It is with great pride and excitement that I bring forth the news today that one of our own members of the Tir Righ College of Heralds, Caitrina Sable Loat, has accepted the position of Lions Blood Herald of An Tir! Lady Caitrina has shown herself to be one of the most dedicated and excellent submissions heralds in the kingdom for some time now and her appointment to the post is a boon to our College, the Kingdom College and the entire Kingdom of An Tir! Congratulations, Lady Caitrina! We're all looking forward to the great things that you will be bringing us in your new position! - Quentin Silver Yale -----Original Message----- From: antir-heralds-bounces at antir.sca.org [mailto:antir-heralds-bounces at antir.sca.org] On Behalf Of Lee Damon Sent: Tuesday, August 21, 2007 8:28 PM To: antir-heralds at antir.sca.org Cc: laurel at sca.org; black-lion at antir.sca.org Subject: [antir-heralds] New Lions Blood Herald as of September Crown Greetings to all the heralds of An Tir, Laurel, and Ragged Staff, (Principality Heralds, please pass this information on to your principality lists.) I am pleased to announce that Lady Caitrina inghean Aindriasa will be stepping up as Lions Blood Herald (External Submissions) effective on the First of September, 2007. Gwenlian Catharne continues to be Lions Blood Herald until then and will remain as Lions Blood Clerk after the transition, handling all of the paper pushing required by Lions Blood and Black Lion. The submission address _will not change_. Please direct all submitters to send their paperwork to: Lions Blood Clerk An Tir College of Heralds 1001 Cooper Pt Rd SW #140, PMB-164 Olympia, WA 98502 Please join me in welcoming Lady Caitrina to her new duties and thanking Lady Gwenlian for handling the daunting tasks of Lions Blood and Queue Forchie at the same time. Lord Christopher Thomas Black Lion Principal Herald, An Tir Argent, a flat cap purpure plumed and on a chief azure three commedia del'Arte masks argent. black-lion at antir.sca.org From quentin at shittimwoode.org Fri Aug 31 06:53:50 2007 From: quentin at shittimwoode.org (Quentin Martel) Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2007 06:53:50 -0700 Subject: [tirrigh-heralds] FW: Heraldry meeting at Coronet Message-ID: <047701c7ebd6$5cfc0f20$6900a8c0@laptop> I'd like to have a heraldry meeting at Coronet. We have several things to discuss including the recap of the An Tir College meeting at Crown. Below is the current schedule of events for Coronet. Please let me know if you are coming to Coronet and what time you could make it to a heraldry meeting. Thank you! - QSY -----Original Message----- From: de Savage [mailto:desavage at telus.net] Sent: Thursday, August 30, 2007 2:31 AM To: herald at tirrigh.org Subject: Re: Heraldry meeting at Coronet Good cousin Quentin, >I'd like to get a meeting of the Tir Righ College of Heralds on the >schedule for Coronet. Can that be done? Of course. The schedule so far is; Friday 2:00pm Site opens 8:00pm Lists open for Archery and Coronet Tournament 9:00pm Lists close Saturday 9:00am Pelicans' meeting 9:00am Set up for A&S Display 10:00am Laurels meeting 10:00am Lists open for all Tournaments 10:00am Scribal Arts meeting 10:00am A&S Display open for comment 11:45am Lists close for Coronet Tournament 12:30pm Invocation of the Archery Lists 1:00pm Archery Championship begins - Archery Range 1:00pm Invocation of the Coronet Lists 2:00pm Coronet Tournament begins - Grand Arena 6:30pm Court of Ulf and Caoimhinn 8:00pm Seven Deadly Sins Rapier Tournament - Grand Arena 8:30pm Chivalry meeting Sunday 9:00am Lists re- open for Squires and Cadets Tournaments 9:00am Financial Committee meeting 9:20am Lists close for Cadets Tournament 9:30am Cadets' Tourney begins - Grand Arena 9:30am TAM Course - Archery Range 9:30am Curia 10:45am Lists close for Squires tourney 11:00am Squires Tournament - Grand Arena 1:00pm Final Court 5:00pm Site closes The only change that might be happening is that the Saturday Archery Championship might switch out with the TAM course on Sunday. What time/day works for you? I remain, -- Yours in Service, Sevrin de Savage Seneschal of Appledore Cadet to Don Enoch Jacobsz. van Zuidenland ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ "Whoever wants to be happy, let him be so: about tomorrow there's no knowing." ~ Lorenzo de Medici Visit the Quattrocento Florence Project ... http://www3.telus.net/Quattrocento_Florence/