From uilliam at shaw.ca Thu Sep 11 19:42:03 2008 From: uilliam at shaw.ca (Uilliam mac Ailene mhic Seamuis) Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2008 19:42:03 -0700 Subject: [tirrigh-heralds] Some thoughts following September Coronet Message-ID: <48C9D6FB.6060402@shaw.ca> Unto all the heralds here foregathered, plus anyone else who's hanging about, greetings! Pursuant to the College of Heralds meeting at September Coronet, and having opened my big yap there (like anyone was suprised, right?), I thought I'd kick the post-meeting ball off. One of the things I want to see put together, and which somehow I'm now supposed to be organizing, is a "Policy and Procedures" manual for the College of Heralds. The way I see it, it should be a compendium of knowledge regarding all kinds of procedures, policies, heraldic customs and so on and so forth, so that anyone who is, or is thinking of becoming a herald can look this stuff up. So far, I see it comprising the following main areas: 1) Definition of the heraldic offices, from Silver Yale Principal Herald on down. We don't have a lot of deputies yet, and I personally don't believe we necessarily need to duplicate every office that Kingdom has, but we do need to examine the heraldic functions and determine whether we want to carry those out, and whether the size of the principality warrants making a specific deputy, or if some of them can be lumped together. An example: at Kingdom, there is Lowenmahne Herald, a job I used to have, which was the deputy for field and town crier. Since I left the job, the town crier function has been split off to a pursuivant-level because the size of the Lowenmahne job had grown to the point one person just couldn't do it all. That's the sort of thing I mean. At our size, we probably don't need to split it off, but I would say we certainly need both the field herald and town crier functions. 2) Statement of heraldic policies. This section will probably be prefaced with a statement to the effect of "subject to Their Highnesses' whims", as they may decide for good and sufficient reasons of their own to either promulgatge new policy or change existing ones. I (being the opinionated git that I am) have several very strongly held opinions regarding heraldic policies, mostly to do with voice, ceremony and protocol. I've started compiling these thoughts together, and will put something up in a bit. I would strongly, strongly, *strongly* encourage every other herald in Tir Righ (and those Kingdom heralds who hang out here as well) to offer their thoughts and opinions. I feel we should debate and discuss these things so we can then come to some agreement, present it to Silver Yale and get his word on it and so he can then present it to TH for their comments. I feel it's also worth pointing out again, as I did at the meeting, that new royalty may well find this sort of thing a "comfort zone" to have accessible, to know how the College's defaults are set up, if you will. That way, if they decide they do want to make changes, they at least know where they're starting from. 3) Customs goes hand-in-glove with the policies, but I separate it out, as this should be where things relating to heraldic custom and pageantry go. Some of this will be information which may be duplicated elsewhere, and I'm good with that, or else including it by reference; a case in point might be the Order of March for the Coronet Lists. This would also cover things like customs within the College, such as perks of office for various deputies, ceremonies of and involving the college, such as creating a new herald, distinctions of heraldic rank, announcing the College as part of the procession at Crown Lists (we didn't do this, and I didn't think of it until the Invocation of the Lists was underway...) Anyway, lots of stuff, and a lot of it which will probably cross-reference to the Ceremonial, about which I also have several opinions, but I will defer to Her Excellency Bernadette, as that's her bailiwick. I'd like to close by saying that if anyone has any ideas for stuff in these categories, or categories I've missed completely, I would *love* to hear from you! I would also strongly encourage you to share it here on the list so that everyone can benefit from it. Yours aye, Uilliam No office, just opinions - lots of them. From mhood at shaw.ca Thu Sep 11 19:55:30 2008 From: mhood at shaw.ca (Mark Hood) Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2008 19:55:30 -0700 Subject: [tirrigh-heralds] Some thoughts following September Coronet In-Reply-To: <48C9D6FB.6060402@shaw.ca> References: <48C9D6FB.6060402@shaw.ca> Message-ID: <48C9DA22.3090709@shaw.ca> Unto the College, Greetings From the Other Uilliam. Unfortunately, I missed the College's meeting, and only have things that were discussed second hand. Can I inquire what was said about the Tir Righ ceremonial? The past few years I've moved away from the College, and since taking on my current gig, I've had little time to think about it. But I've always been a bit of a protocol herald at heart, and the Ceremonial has always been a favourite subject to me. Inquiring minds want - eh. 'would like' to know. Uilliam Not the Seagirt One. Uilliam mac Ailene mhic Seamuis wrote: > Unto all the heralds here foregathered, plus anyone else who's hanging > about, greetings! > > Pursuant to the College of Heralds meeting at September Coronet, and > having opened my big yap there (like anyone was suprised, right?), I > thought I'd kick the post-meeting ball off. > > One of the things I want to see put together, and which somehow I'm now > supposed to be organizing, is a "Policy and Procedures" manual for the > College of Heralds. The way I see it, it should be a compendium of > knowledge regarding all kinds of procedures, policies, heraldic customs > and so on and so forth, so that anyone who is, or is thinking of > becoming a herald can look this stuff up. > > So far, I see it comprising the following main areas: > > 1) Definition of the heraldic offices, from Silver Yale Principal > Herald on down. We don't have a lot of deputies yet, and I personally > don't believe we necessarily need to duplicate every office that Kingdom > has, but we do need to examine the heraldic functions and determine > whether we want to carry those out, and whether the size of the > principality warrants making a specific deputy, or if some of them can > be lumped together. An example: at Kingdom, there is Lowenmahne Herald, > a job I used to have, which was the deputy for field and town crier. > Since I left the job, the town crier function has been split off to a > pursuivant-level because the size of the Lowenmahne job had grown to the > point one person just couldn't do it all. That's the sort of thing I > mean. At our size, we probably don't need to split it off, but I would > say we certainly need both the field herald and town crier functions. > > 2) Statement of heraldic policies. This section will probably be > prefaced with a statement to the effect of "subject to Their Highnesses' > whims", as they may decide for good and sufficient reasons of their own > to either promulgatge new policy or change existing ones. I (being the > opinionated git that I am) have several very strongly held opinions > regarding heraldic policies, mostly to do with voice, ceremony and > protocol. I've started compiling these thoughts together, and will put > something up in a bit. I would strongly, strongly, *strongly* encourage > every other herald in Tir Righ (and those Kingdom heralds who hang out > here as well) to offer their thoughts and opinions. I feel we should > debate and discuss these things so we can then come to some agreement, > present it to Silver Yale and get his word on it and so he can then > present it to TH for their comments. I feel it's also worth pointing out > again, as I did at the meeting, that new royalty may well find this sort > of thing a "comfort zone" to have accessible, to know how the College's > defaults are set up, if you will. That way, if they decide they do want > to make changes, they at least know where they're starting from. > > 3) Customs goes hand-in-glove with the policies, but I separate it out, > as this should be where things relating to heraldic custom and pageantry > go. Some of this will be information which may be duplicated elsewhere, > and I'm good with that, or else including it by reference; a case in > point might be the Order of March for the Coronet Lists. This would also > cover things like customs within the College, such as perks of office > for various deputies, ceremonies of and involving the college, such as > creating a new herald, distinctions of heraldic rank, announcing the > College as part of the procession at Crown Lists (we didn't do this, and > I didn't think of it until the Invocation of the Lists was underway...) > > Anyway, lots of stuff, and a lot of it which will probably > cross-reference to the Ceremonial, about which I also have several > opinions, but I will defer to Her Excellency Bernadette, as that's her > bailiwick. I'd like to close by saying that if anyone has any ideas for > stuff in these categories, or categories I've missed completely, I would > *love* to hear from you! I would also strongly encourage you to share it > here on the list so that everyone can benefit from it. > > Yours aye, > Uilliam > No office, just opinions - lots of them. > > =============================================== > Principality of Tir Righ College of Heralds mailing list > Unsubscribe: collegeofheralds-unsubscribe at tirrigh.org > Help: collegeofheralds-request at tirrigh.org, subject line "help" (without quotes) > or http://mail.tirrigh.org/mailman/listinfo/collegeofheralds_tirrigh.org > > From uilliam at shaw.ca Thu Sep 11 22:06:36 2008 From: uilliam at shaw.ca (Uilliam mac Ailene mhic Seamuis) Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2008 22:06:36 -0700 Subject: [tirrigh-heralds] Some thoughts following September Coronet In-Reply-To: <48C9D6FB.6060402@shaw.ca> References: <48C9D6FB.6060402@shaw.ca> Message-ID: <48C9F8DC.7070704@shaw.ca> Uilliam mac Ailene mhic Seamuis wrote: > 1) Definition of the heraldic offices, from Silver Yale Principal > Herald on down. We don't have a lot of deputies yet, and I personally > Er, I was just reminded that properly, the title is "Silver Yale Herald". There's only one Principal Herald per kingdom. My bad. Uilliam From duncan1466 at yahoo.com Fri Sep 12 05:36:41 2008 From: duncan1466 at yahoo.com (Duncan Darroch) Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2008 05:36:41 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [tirrigh-heralds] Some thoughts following September Coronet In-Reply-To: <48C9F8DC.7070704@shaw.ca> Message-ID: <265875.72388.qm@web51409.mail.re2.yahoo.com> What were not a Kingdom..... teehee Fish... As per the other Uilliam's question... I missed the 8:30am meeting as well but know that we are in desperate need of revamping our Ceremonial. Which I would love to help with. YIS Duncan, Storm Vox, deputy Herald of Voice and Court Principality of Tir Righ (if our Silver Yale will let me hold the office again?) Personal Blazon: Argent, two compass stars in fess and on a point pointed ploye vert a compass star argent. --- On Thu, 9/11/08, Uilliam mac Ailene mhic Seamuis wrote: > From: Uilliam mac Ailene mhic Seamuis > Subject: Re: [tirrigh-heralds] Some thoughts following September Coronet > To: collegeofheralds at tirrigh.org > Date: Thursday, September 11, 2008, 10:06 PM > Uilliam mac Ailene mhic Seamuis wrote: > > 1) Definition of the heraldic offices, from Silver > Yale Principal > > Herald on down. We don't have a lot of deputies > yet, and I personally > > > Er, I was just reminded that properly, the title is > "Silver Yale > Herald". There's only one Principal Herald per > kingdom. My bad. > > Uilliam > > =============================================== > Principality of Tir Righ College of Heralds mailing list > Unsubscribe: collegeofheralds-unsubscribe at tirrigh.org > Help: collegeofheralds-request at tirrigh.org, subject > line "help" (without quotes) > or > http://mail.tirrigh.org/mailman/listinfo/collegeofheralds_tirrigh.org From tierna.britt at gmail.com Fri Sep 12 22:42:50 2008 From: tierna.britt at gmail.com (Teceangl) Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2008 22:42:50 -0700 Subject: [tirrigh-heralds] Some thoughts following September Coronet In-Reply-To: <48C9D6FB.6060402@shaw.ca> References: <48C9D6FB.6060402@shaw.ca> Message-ID: <232740310809122242nb7d9f22l6849a7269d9a0553@mail.gmail.com> > 2) Statement of heraldic policies. This section will probably be > prefaced with a statement to the effect of "subject to Their Highnesses' > whims", as they may decide for good and sufficient reasons of their own > to either promulgatge new policy or change existing ones. If principality law is that THs can change policy, I'd not both to put it in here. Royalty will do what they will but they needn't be invited to mess with things that were developed by those who do the job, do they? (All respect to the crowned heads, of course. But how often are the crowned heads working heralds who realize why things are done as they are?) - Teceangl Ounce -- Head returns off at the pass - http://heraldry.sca.org/heraldry/laurel/boing.html From uilliam at shaw.ca Sat Sep 13 09:11:08 2008 From: uilliam at shaw.ca (Uilliam mac Ailene mhic Seamuis) Date: Sat, 13 Sep 2008 09:11:08 -0700 Subject: [tirrigh-heralds] Some thoughts following September Coronet In-Reply-To: <232740310809122242nb7d9f22l6849a7269d9a0553@mail.gmail.com> References: <48C9D6FB.6060402@shaw.ca> <232740310809122242nb7d9f22l6849a7269d9a0553@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <48CBE61C.10606@shaw.ca> Teceangl wrote: >> 2) Statement of heraldic policies. This section will probably be >> prefaced with a statement to the effect of "subject to Their Highnesses' >> whims", as they may decide for good and sufficient reasons of their own >> to either promulgatge new policy or change existing ones. >> > > If principality law is that THs can change policy, I'd not both to put > it in here. Royalty will do what they will but they needn't be invited > to mess with things that were developed by those who do the job, do > they? > (All respect to the crowned heads, of course. But how often are the > crowned heads working heralds who realize why things are done as they > are?) > > - Teceangl Ounce > Good point, gracious lady. The way I see it, the policy should be the fall-back. If TH want to change something for the duration of their reign, then it can be an insert, and removed at the end of their reign. OTOH, it might turn out to be such a good idea that the College slaps its collective forehead and says "Duh! Of course!" and decides to keep it. The biggest thing is that I feel we need a written reference, to ensure that everyone is on the same page. I don't know that principality law addresses the issue of TH and heraldic policies; my view (and again, this is one herald's opinion only) is that Royalty has the right to make changes unless they conflict with Kingdom law / decisions of the Crown. Certainly I am not for a moment advocating that we would meekly accept something that TH wanted to do that went against tradition/good heraldic practice; we would most definitely counsel and advise them. But in the end they're the final authority. Uilliam From kj2mill at lakescom.net Sat Sep 13 22:37:06 2008 From: kj2mill at lakescom.net (Kevin and Jen) Date: Sat, 13 Sep 2008 22:37:06 -0700 Subject: [tirrigh-heralds] Some thoughts following September Coronet References: <48C9D6FB.6060402@shaw.ca><232740310809122242nb7d9f22l6849a7269d9a0553@mail.gmail.com> <48CBE61C.10606@shaw.ca> Message-ID: <001401c9162b$f6c48990$6700a8c0@jennifer> I am just beginning as a herald, and I may have missed this information somewhere on the e-lists, but the idea of having written policy/information about the Heraldic Offices, branches and general policies would be most helpful (maybe including an organizational chart?). LOL, I got stuck for a couple weeks because I did not know the difference between the Lions Blood Clerk and the Silver Yale Herald. Alys Lakewood ----- Original Message ----- From: "Uilliam mac Ailene mhic Seamuis" To: "Teceangl" Cc: Sent: Saturday, September 13, 2008 9:11 AM Subject: Re: [tirrigh-heralds] Some thoughts following September Coronet > Teceangl wrote: >>> 2) Statement of heraldic policies. This section will probably be >>> prefaced with a statement to the effect of "subject to Their Highnesses' >>> whims", as they may decide for good and sufficient reasons of their own >>> to either promulgatge new policy or change existing ones. >>> >> >> If principality law is that THs can change policy, I'd not both to put >> it in here. Royalty will do what they will but they needn't be invited >> to mess with things that were developed by those who do the job, do >> they? >> (All respect to the crowned heads, of course. But how often are the >> crowned heads working heralds who realize why things are done as they >> are?) >> >> - Teceangl Ounce >> > Good point, gracious lady. > > The way I see it, the policy should be the fall-back. If TH want to > change something for the duration of their reign, then it can be an > insert, and removed at the end of their reign. OTOH, it might turn out > to be such a good idea that the College slaps its collective forehead > and says "Duh! Of course!" and decides to keep it. The biggest thing is > that I feel we need a written reference, to ensure that everyone is on > the same page. > > I don't know that principality law addresses the issue of TH and > heraldic policies; my view (and again, this is one herald's opinion > only) is that Royalty has the right to make changes unless they conflict > with Kingdom law / decisions of the Crown. Certainly I am not for a > moment advocating that we would meekly accept something that TH wanted > to do that went against tradition/good heraldic practice; we would most > definitely counsel and advise them. But in the end they're the final > authority. > > Uilliam > > > =============================================== > Principality of Tir Righ College of Heralds mailing list > Unsubscribe: collegeofheralds-unsubscribe at tirrigh.org > Help: collegeofheralds-request at tirrigh.org, subject line "help" > (without quotes) > or http://mail.tirrigh.org/mailman/listinfo/collegeofheralds_tirrigh.org From uilliam at shaw.ca Sat Sep 20 16:15:23 2008 From: uilliam at shaw.ca (Uilliam mac Ailene mhic Seamuis) Date: Sat, 20 Sep 2008 16:15:23 -0700 Subject: [tirrigh-heralds] [Fwd: [antir-heralds] Web Resources For You] Message-ID: <48D5840B.5050405@shaw.ca> -------- Original Message -------- Subject: [antir-heralds] Web Resources For You Date: Sat, 20 Sep 2008 11:06:21 -0700 From: Barbara Segal To: antir-heralds Unto the An Tir Heraldic Community Comes Greetings! What follows is the monthly message featuring online resources available to support SCA heraldry. It is especially aimed at those newer to heraldry or non-heralds who may be on this list looking for help. Please feel free to forward to lists or individuals who may find it useful. Helping members young and old design devices is one of a herald's many duties. Below are some websites that you can use to get the armory client started. Helping Your Client Design a Device or Badge "What is a Device?" by Master Jasper Greensmith of the Seagirt Glen, Dame Zenobia Naphtali, and Lord Torric inn Bjorn http://heraldry.sca.org/heraldry/laurel/whatis/device.html "What is a Badge?" by Dame Zenobia Naphtali http://heraldry.sca.org/heraldry/laurel/whatis/badge.html These are great one-page article that you can print and distribute to newcomers. It provides the armorial terminology and what having SCA device or badge is about. "Argent Snail's Insta-Boing Checklist" by Jaelle of Armida http://heraldry.sca.org/heraldry/laurel/boing.html A client comes to you with that great device idea - but will it work? Here's a list of the most common style problems in device designs. Use it to catch those snags before the paperwork gets sent in! Happy Heralding! In Service, Esclarmonde de Porcairages Interim Argent Scroll _______________________________________________ antir-heralds mailing list antir-heralds at antir.sca.org http://missives.antir.sca.org/mailman/listinfo/antir-heralds -------------- next part -------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.169 / Virus Database: 270.7.0/1682 - Release Date: 20/09/2008 10:24 AM