From isoldethecelt at yahoo.ca Fri Nov 12 23:02:00 2010 From: isoldethecelt at yahoo.ca (Janice Murphy) Date: Fri, 12 Nov 2010 23:02:00 -0800 (PST) Subject: [tirrigh-heralds] CC: "Fieldless, a cross formy quadrate sable."- basically the Lionsdale cross Message-ID: <379547.35320.qm@web120318.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> For the Lionsdale shire badge: "Fieldless, a cross formy quadrate sable."- basically the Lionsdale cross Client has not seen any conflicts as yet but was a bit confused by which crosses conflicted with which. Any help you can give would be most appreciated. Lady Isolde the Celt Conflict Deputy for the Tir Righ College of Heralds -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jdharcus at telus.net Sat Nov 13 09:02:12 2010 From: jdharcus at telus.net (Judy Harcus) Date: Sat, 13 Nov 2010 09:02:12 -0800 Subject: [tirrigh-heralds] [antir-heralds] CC: "Fieldless, a cross formy quadrate sable."- basically the Lionsdale cross In-Reply-To: <379547.35320.qm@web120318.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> References: <379547.35320.qm@web120318.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4CDEC494.1020503@telus.net> The May 2009 Cover Letter (http://heraldry.sca.org/loar/2009/05/09-05cl.html) has a discussion of what cross conflict, however it doesn't cover everything and doesn't discuss what difference there is by making the cross quadrate. The letter specifies that "Crosses formy/paty" conflict with each other. Some digging into the LoARs found this in the Sept 2009 LoAR (http://heraldry.sca.org/loar/2009/09/09-09lar.html) "Janos Hideg. Badge. Sable, a cross formy quadrate argent. Question was raised in commentary whether the quadrate treatment of a cross is worth difference. Batonvert found the arms of Jerusalem depicted as Argent, a cross potent quadrate between four crosses couped Or, in The Armorial de Gelre, c.1370, rather than the usual cross potent (i.e., not quadrate). A cross quadrate must, therefore, be considered an artistic variant of the underlying cross type, blazonable, but not significant for purposes of conflict. The badge, therefore, is returned for conflict with the badge of the Order of the Dannebrog (important non-SCA armory), (Fieldless) A cross formy argent fimbriated gules. There is a single CD for fieldlesness, but nothing for the fimbriation or the quadrate treatment of Janos' cross. The badge is also returned for conflict with the device of Christgaen von K?ln, Sable crusilly formy argent. There is a CD for the change of number of primary charges, but nothing for the quadrate treatment of Janos' cross." Therefore, I believe the proposed badge probably conflicts with Dorothea of Caer-Myrddin (registered in January of 1973): Argent, a cross patty sable. I *think* that's the only conflict though it would be good to have others check as well. However, in spite of this being such an old registration, Googling her name came up with what may be a valid email address for Dorothea (which I will send to you privately rather than post to the list), so you may be able to get permission to conflict since both the field and the quadrate makes a blazonable difference. Alicia Janice Murphy wrote: >For the Lionsdale shire badge: >"Fieldless, a cross formy quadrate sable."- basically the Lionsdale cross >Client has not seen any conflicts as yet but was a bit confused by which >crosses conflicted with which. Any help you can give would be most >appreciated. > >Lady Isolde the Celt >Conflict Deputy for the Tir Righ College of Heralds > > >_______________________________________________ >antir-heralds mailing list >antir-heralds at antir.sca.org >http://missives.antir.sca.org/mailman/listinfo/antir-heralds > > > From jdharcus at telus.net Sat Nov 13 09:32:01 2010 From: jdharcus at telus.net (Judy Harcus) Date: Sat, 13 Nov 2010 09:32:01 -0800 Subject: [tirrigh-heralds] [antir-heralds] CC: "Fieldless, a cross formy quadrate sable."- basically the Lionsdale cross In-Reply-To: References: <379547.35320.qm@web120318.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4CDECB91.6080606@telus.net> Bruce Draconarius wrote: > - Teutonic Order > - The following badge associated with this name was registered in > December of 1994 (via Laurel): > *(Fieldless) A Latin cross formy sable fimbriated argent.* > Important non-SCA badge > > Rats! I missed that it was formy not a plain Latin cross (which wouldn't have conflicted). And there is no difference given for between an equal armed cross couped and a Latin cross so the difference in length of one arm doesn't help. No chance of getting permission to conflict for this one! Alicia From draconarius at gmail.com Sat Nov 13 07:58:05 2010 From: draconarius at gmail.com (Bruce Draconarius) Date: Sat, 13 Nov 2010 07:58:05 -0800 Subject: [tirrigh-heralds] [antir-heralds] CC: "Fieldless, a cross formy quadrate sable."- basically the Lionsdale cross In-Reply-To: <379547.35320.qm@web120318.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> References: <379547.35320.qm@web120318.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: The current policy seems to be that, while a cross (i.e. an ordinary, throughout) gets a CD from a cross quadrate, a discrete cross like a cross formy gets no difference from a cross formy quadrate: we have period examples of the arms of Jerusalem with both a cross potent and a cross potent quadrate, showing the quadrate treatment to be an artistic detail only. So this would conflict with a cross formy sable. I find two conflicts: the badge of the Teutonic Order, which is important non-SCA armory and therefore protected, "(Fieldless) A Latin cross formy sable fimbriated argent", with a CD for fieldlessness, nothing for making the cross Latin or quadrate, nothing for fimbriation; and the device of Dorothea of Caer-Myrddin, "Argent, a cross patty sable", with "patty" being another term for "formy", so again nothing for making the cross quadrate, and a CD for fieldlessness. - Bruce - Teutonic Order - The following badge associated with this name was registered in December of 1994 (via Laurel) : *(Fieldless ) A Latin cross formy sable fimbriated argent .* Important non-SCA badge - Dorothea of Caer-Myrddin - Either the name or the following device associated it (or both) were registered in January of 1973 : *Argent , a crosspatty sable .* On Fri, Nov 12, 2010 at 11:02 PM, Janice Murphy wrote: > For the Lionsdale shire badge: > "Fieldless, a cross formy quadrate sable."- basically the Lionsdale cross > Client has not seen any conflicts as yet but was a bit confused by which > crosses conflicted with which. Any help you can give would be most > appreciated. > > Lady Isolde the Celt > Conflict Deputy for the Tir Righ College of Heralds > > > _______________________________________________ > antir-heralds mailing list > antir-heralds at antir.sca.org > http://missives.antir.sca.org/mailman/listinfo/antir-heralds > -- You open the Draconomicon, you get the madness. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Caitrina at shaw.ca Fri Nov 26 22:46:24 2010 From: Caitrina at shaw.ca (Caitrina Silver Yale) Date: Fri, 26 Nov 2010 22:46:24 -0800 Subject: [tirrigh-heralds] Upcoming vacancy - Red Flame Herald In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <97FE3EBF898048448E4035F6F235C2CF@carncats.ca> Greetings everyone! Sadly, no one has come forward to apply for the position of Red Flame Herald for Tir Righ. We've extended the deadline to Dec 31st for applications. Please, do not let the job description scare you. You will not be alone.. You get to set up consulting tables at Principality events and the Heralds will come. It's where some of us like to spend an entire event and you have the rest of the College to back you. Someone new to book Heraldry should consider it a great learning experience. Please see the info below. Regards, Caitrina Silver Yale _____ From: collegeofheralds-bounces at tirrigh.org [mailto:collegeofheralds-bounces at tirrigh.org] On Behalf Of Caitrina Silver Yale Sent: Saturday, September 18, 2010 6:37 PM To: collegeofheralds at tirrigh.org; 'NorthernRoad SCA' Cc: chronicler at tirrigh.org Subject: [tirrigh-heralds] Upcoming vacancy - Red Flame Herald Greetings! We are taking applications for the next Red Flame Herald as Alicia is due to step down soon. The Red Flame Herald houses and maintains the Tir Righ College of Heralds resource library, obtains additional resources within a budget and in accordance to the Tir Righ financial policy / procedure and reports any changes to the Principality Chamberlain. He/she also assists in researching names and devices for the populace and ensures a consulting table is set up at Tir Righ Principality events. Applicants should have a basic understanding of SCA Heraldry and the submission process. Any interested applicants should send their SCA and modern resume to myself at herald at tirrigh.org as well as the Seneschal at seneschal at tirrigh.org. The deadline for applications is October 30th. In Service, Caitrina Silver Yale "Quarterly gules and sable, a winged fox sejant argent." -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Caitrina at shaw.ca Sun Nov 28 10:39:03 2010 From: Caitrina at shaw.ca (Caitrina Silver Yale) Date: Sun, 28 Nov 2010 10:39:03 -0800 Subject: [tirrigh-heralds] No Tir Righ ILoI for December Message-ID: <6C93DFB14C894909A34C35EAF0A1623E@carncats.ca> Please forward where deemed necessary. Good morning, Due to circumstances beyond our control (no submissions), there will be no Internal Letter of Intent for the Principality of Tir Righ in December. As well, since there was only one submission for the November letter, the Herald's meeting scheduled in December at the Howe Sound Pub has been cancelled, as well as the Rock Band party that was to follow. It's my hope that as word continues to spread that Tir Righ is accepting submissions on our Populaces behalf, that the coming months will be better. If you dwell in Tir Righ and have been thinking of submitting your name, device or badge but don't know where to start. start here: http://www.tirrigh.org/heralds/ In Service, Caitrina Silver Yale "Quarterly gules and sable, a winged fox sejant argent" -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: