From bogfairy at shaw.ca  Wed Jul 10 16:42:46 2013
From: bogfairy at shaw.ca (Joan Kew)
Date: Wed, 10 Jul 2013 17:42:46 -0600 (MDT)
Subject: [tirrigh-heralds] Conflict check please
In-Reply-To: <387839027.2674740.1373496889343.JavaMail.root@cds016>
Message-ID: <327434735.2711096.1373499766436.JavaMail.root@cds016>

Greetings all,

I would welcome any opinions on whether or not this device and/or badge is free of conflicts. I suspect that there is a potential conflict for the badge, which I've mentioned below. I *think* the device is okay. 

Device: Azure, a sunflower and on a base Or a cauldron sable.

Badge: (Fieldless) On a cauldron sable  a sunflower. 
Does this conflict with Nicole Hardel le Noreys: (Fieldless) On a cauldron sable a mushroom Or.
The sunflower proper is taken and the cauldron itself as well, except in gules or purpure, which the client is not crazy about.

Thank you!

Hawise Blue Inkhorn



From BasilD at lavabit.com  Wed Jul 10 17:38:58 2013
From: BasilD at lavabit.com (Basil)
Date: Wed, 10 Jul 2013 17:38:58 -0700
Subject: [tirrigh-heralds] Conflict check please
In-Reply-To: <327434735.2711096.1373499766436.JavaMail.root@cds016>
References: <327434735.2711096.1373499766436.JavaMail.root@cds016>
Message-ID: <51DDFEA2.4070607@lavabit.com>

On 7/10/2013 4:42 PM, Joan Kew wrote:
> Greetings all,
>
> I would welcome any opinions on whether or not this device and/or
> badge is free of conflicts. I suspect that there is a potential
> conflict for the badge, which I've mentioned below. I *think* the
> device is okay.
>
> Device: Azure, a sunflower and on a base Or a cauldron sable.

I didn't find any conflict.

> Badge: (Fieldless) On a cauldron sable  a sunflower. 

What tincture is the sunflower?

The Glossary (http://heraldry.sca.org/coagloss.html) doesn't list a
default tincture for a sunflower, so you have to have it in the blazon.

> Does this conflict with Nicole Hardel le Noreys: (Fieldless) On a
> cauldron sable a mushroom Or.

No. There's one DC for fieldlessness and another for changing the type 
of the tertiary charge.

I didn't find any conflict.

> The sunflower proper is taken and the cauldron itself as well,
> except in gules or purpure, which the client is not crazy about.

Errr... what? "Taken" in what sense? (Oh, and remember, there's no 
proper for sunflowers)


~~Basil Dragonstrike

Peritia zmaragdus est; sapientia adam?s est. Compar?vistine impensae
e?rum n?per?

And it's only the giving that makes you, what you are. -- J. Tull

Disobedience is Mandatory!




From bogfairy at shaw.ca  Wed Jul 10 19:56:39 2013
From: bogfairy at shaw.ca (Joan Kew)
Date: Wed, 10 Jul 2013 20:56:39 -0600 (MDT)
Subject: [tirrigh-heralds] Fwd:  Conflict check please
In-Reply-To: <2107085587.2811521.1373509528307.JavaMail.root@cds016>
Message-ID: <805148304.2828417.1373511399343.JavaMail.root@cds016>

Whoops, meant to send to all ...

----- Forwarded Message -----
From: "Joan Kew" <bogfairy at shaw.ca>
To: "Basil" <BasilD at lavabit.com>
Sent: Wednesday, July 10, 2013 7:25:28 PM
Subject: Re: [tirrigh-heralds] Conflict check please

Thank you for your advice, Basil. It didn't occur to me that a sunflower wouldn't be proper, so I appreciate that. 


Do you think this is appropriate? 

Device: Azure, a sunflower Or seeded sable and on a base Or a cauldron sable.

Badge: (Fieldless) On a cauldron sable a sunflower Or seeded sable.

(I don't suppose it could be seeded "proper" or brown?) 


By "taken" referring to "(Fieldless) sunflower," I meant already registered to someone else. I must brush up on my herald speak!

Hawise

----- Original Message -----
From: "Basil" <BasilD at lavabit.com>
To: "collegeofheralds" <collegeofheralds at tirrigh.org>
Sent: Wednesday, July 10, 2013 5:38:58 PM
Subject: Re: [tirrigh-heralds] Conflict check please

On 7/10/2013 4:42 PM, Joan Kew wrote:
> Greetings all,
>
> I would welcome any opinions on whether or not this device and/or
> badge is free of conflicts. I suspect that there is a potential
> conflict for the badge, which I've mentioned below. I *think* the
> device is okay.
>
> Device: Azure, a sunflower and on a base Or a cauldron sable.

I didn't find any conflict.

> Badge: (Fieldless) On a cauldron sable  a sunflower. 

What tincture is the sunflower?

The Glossary (http://heraldry.sca.org/coagloss.html) doesn't list a
default tincture for a sunflower, so you have to have it in the blazon.

> Does this conflict with Nicole Hardel le Noreys: (Fieldless) On a
> cauldron sable a mushroom Or.

No. There's one DC for fieldlessness and another for changing the type 
of the tertiary charge.

I didn't find any conflict.

> The sunflower proper is taken and the cauldron itself as well,
> except in gules or purpure, which the client is not crazy about.

Errr... what? "Taken" in what sense? (Oh, and remember, there's no 
proper for sunflowers)


~~Basil Dragonstrike

Peritia zmaragdus est; sapientia adam?s est. Compar?vistine impensae
e?rum n?per?

And it's only the giving that makes you, what you are. -- J. Tull

Disobedience is Mandatory!


===============================================
Principality of Tir Righ College of Heralds mailing list
Unsubscribe: collegeofheralds-unsubscribe at tirrigh.org
       Help: collegeofheralds-request at tirrigh.org, subject line "help" (without quotes)
or http://mail.tirrigh.org/mailman/listinfo/collegeofheralds_tirrigh.org



From BasilD at lavabit.com  Wed Jul 10 20:03:18 2013
From: BasilD at lavabit.com (Basil)
Date: Wed, 10 Jul 2013 20:03:18 -0700
Subject: [tirrigh-heralds] Conflict check please
In-Reply-To: <2107085587.2811521.1373509528307.JavaMail.root@cds016>
References: <2107085587.2811521.1373509528307.JavaMail.root@cds016>
Message-ID: <51DE2076.9030406@lavabit.com>

On 7/10/2013 7:25 PM, Joan Kew wrote:
> Thank you for your advice, Basil. It didn't occur to me that a sunflower wouldn't be proper, so I appreciate that.
>
>
> Do you think this is appropriate?
>
> Device: Azure, a sunflower Or seeded sable and on a base Or a cauldron sable.
>
> Badge: (Fieldless) On a cauldron sable a sunflower Or seeded sable.

Looks OK to me.

> (I don't suppose it could be seeded "proper" or brown?)

I don't think so.

> By "taken" referring to "(Fieldless) sunflower," I meant already registered to someone else. I must brush up on my herald speak!

Ah!


~~Basil Dragonstrike

Er? m?tis cum sim mortuus.

Peritia zmaragdus est; sapientia adam?s est. Compar?vistine impensae 
e?rum n?per?

Disobedience is Mandatory!




From bogfairy at shaw.ca  Sun Jul 14 21:19:20 2013
From: bogfairy at shaw.ca (Joan Kew)
Date: Sun, 14 Jul 2013 22:19:20 -0600 (MDT)
Subject: [tirrigh-heralds] Conflict check please
In-Reply-To: <51DE2076.9030406@lavabit.com>
Message-ID: <363021231.5900849.1373861960606.JavaMail.root@cds016>

Basil (and others), I think I have made some headway with the possibility of a sunflower proper; please advise, and thank you!

>From http://heraldry.sca.org/loar/2007/07/07-07cl.html:

>From Wreath: Sunflowers Proper

In returning Cassandra von Schwabing's device in November 2000 Laurel ruled, "There is no default color for the seeds of sunflowers: sometimes they are black, sometimes brown. Therefore, we cannot register a sunflower proper." However, over the years we have registered several sunflowers proper. Some of these had black seeds, some brown seeds. We hereby overturn the November 2000 precedent and allow sunflowers proper to be registered. Just as a thistle proper can have its tuft either gules or purpure, a sunflower proper may have either brown or sable seeds. For purposes of conflict checking, the tincture of a sunflower's seeds is not worth a difference. The presence of these seeds does not count as a tertiary charge.

Hawise
----- Original Message -----
From: "Basil" <BasilD at lavabit.com>
To: "Joan Kew" <bogfairy at shaw.ca>, "collegeofheralds" <collegeofheralds at tirrigh.org>
Sent: Wednesday, July 10, 2013 8:03:18 PM
Subject: Re: [tirrigh-heralds] Conflict check please

On 7/10/2013 7:25 PM, Joan Kew wrote:
> Thank you for your advice, Basil. It didn't occur to me that a sunflower wouldn't be proper, so I appreciate that.
>
>
> Do you think this is appropriate?
>
> Device: Azure, a sunflower Or seeded sable and on a base Or a cauldron sable.
>
> Badge: (Fieldless) On a cauldron sable a sunflower Or seeded sable.

Looks OK to me.

> (I don't suppose it could be seeded "proper" or brown?)

I don't think so.

> By "taken" referring to "(Fieldless) sunflower," I meant already registered to someone else. I must brush up on my herald speak!

Ah!


~~Basil Dragonstrike

Er? m?tis cum sim mortuus.

Peritia zmaragdus est; sapientia adam?s est. Compar?vistine impensae 
e?rum n?per?

Disobedience is Mandatory!



From cocinera at shaw.ca  Thu Jul 18 19:21:32 2013
From: cocinera at shaw.ca (Rosemary Underhill)
Date: Thu, 18 Jul 2013 19:21:32 -0700
Subject: [tirrigh-heralds] Herald's Quarterly Reports
Message-ID: <BB86C876C2234A10AF7A493286F73AAE@Hermione>

 

Good Branch Heralds and Seneschals of Tir Righ 

 

 Quarterly Reports are due by the July 31.    Even if you have had no
activity this quarter, please send a report letting us know that.   It is
important that we hear from you.  If you have any questions please ask. 

 

Thank you!

 

Yours in heraldic service, 

Theocharista Doukaina,

Reporting Deputy Herald, Tir Righ




-----
No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 2013.0.3349 / Virus Database: 3204/6502 - Release Date: 07/18/13
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From cocinera at shaw.ca  Wed Jul 24 20:48:48 2013
From: cocinera at shaw.ca (Rosemary Underhill)
Date: Wed, 24 Jul 2013 20:48:48 -0700
Subject: [tirrigh-heralds] Heraldic Quarterly reports
Message-ID: <21F4C5140EEA459C851E088654EF7912@Hermione>

Greetings Branch Heralds and Seneschals of Tir Righ 

 

Just a reminder that the Reports are due in a week.    Even if you have had
no activity this quarter, please send a report letting us know.   

 

With thanks 

 

Yours in heraldic service, 

Theocharista Doukaina,

Reporting Deputy Herald, Tir Righ

 




-----
No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 2013.0.3349 / Virus Database: 3209/6518 - Release Date: 07/24/13
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From rose.worldlook at shaw.ca  Mon Jul 29 22:08:18 2013
From: rose.worldlook at shaw.ca (Rose)
Date: Mon, 29 Jul 2013 22:08:18 -0700
Subject: [tirrigh-heralds] Conflict Check needed. please help
References: <21F4C5140EEA459C851E088654EF7912@Hermione>
Message-ID: <4DFFC4219AF24542B0DCAB3A339EBF42@acer9147bc638d>

Per chevron azure and argent 2 wolf's heads erased and respectant argent a celtic harp vert


Thank you for the help
Rose 
lionsdale
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From rose.worldlook at shaw.ca  Mon Jul 29 22:10:12 2013
From: rose.worldlook at shaw.ca (Rose)
Date: Mon, 29 Jul 2013 22:10:12 -0700
Subject: [tirrigh-heralds] Conflict Check needed. please help
References: <21F4C5140EEA459C851E088654EF7912@Hermione>
	<4DFFC4219AF24542B0DCAB3A339EBF42@acer9147bc638d>
Message-ID: <B203AB7A4B844C86BEE10CB398DE0361@acer9147bc638d>

and the second
  fieldless, on a wolf's head erased argent a celtic harp vert

  Thank you Rose
  lionsdale
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From jdharcus at telus.net  Tue Jul 30 07:11:46 2013
From: jdharcus at telus.net (Judy Harcus)
Date: Tue, 30 Jul 2013 07:11:46 -0700
Subject: [tirrigh-heralds] Conflict Check needed. please help
In-Reply-To: <4DFFC4219AF24542B0DCAB3A339EBF42@acer9147bc638d>
References: <21F4C5140EEA459C851E088654EF7912@Hermione>
	<4DFFC4219AF24542B0DCAB3A339EBF42@acer9147bc638d>
Message-ID: <51F7C9A2.1090002@telus.net>

There's a couple close but I think clear:

Bleyddyn ap Rhys: Per chevron azure and argent, two wolf's heads erased 
argent and a drakkar sable.
One DC for changing the type of half the charge group (in a group 
divided two and one, each side of the divide is considered 'half'), and 
a second DC for changing the tincture of half the charge group.  I'm not 
sure there would be a DC for changing orientation of just one of the 
charges.

Brienna Llewellyn Lindsay: Per chevron azure and argent, two horse's 
heads couped addorsed and a harp counterchanged.
One DC for changing the type of half the charge group, and a second DC 
for changing the tincture of half the charge group.  There might be a DC 
for changing orientation of the heads (for looking away rather than 
towards each other).

H?l?ne Dupres de Bretagne: Per chevron azure and argent, two pegasi 
combattant and a harp counterchanged.
One DC for changing the type of half the charge group, and a second DC 
for changing the tincture of half the charge group. 

No conflict found.

Alicia


Rose wrote:

> Per chevron azure and argent 2 wolf's heads erased and respectant 
> argent a celtic harp vert
>  
>  
> Thank you for the help
> Rose
> lionsdale
>  
>
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>===============================================
>Principality of Tir Righ College of Heralds mailing list
>Unsubscribe: collegeofheralds-unsubscribe at tirrigh.org
>       Help: collegeofheralds-request at tirrigh.org, subject line "help" (without quotes)
>or http://mail.tirrigh.org/mailman/listinfo/collegeofheralds_tirrigh.org
>  
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> No virus found in this message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com <http://www.avg.com>
> Version: 2013.0.2904 / Virus Database: 3209/6521 - Release Date: 07/25/13
>

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From jdharcus at telus.net  Tue Jul 30 07:13:24 2013
From: jdharcus at telus.net (Judy Harcus)
Date: Tue, 30 Jul 2013 07:13:24 -0700
Subject: [tirrigh-heralds] Conflict Check needed. please help
In-Reply-To: <B203AB7A4B844C86BEE10CB398DE0361@acer9147bc638d>
References: <21F4C5140EEA459C851E088654EF7912@Hermione>	<4DFFC4219AF24542B0DCAB3A339EBF42@acer9147bc638d>
	<B203AB7A4B844C86BEE10CB398DE0361@acer9147bc638d>
Message-ID: <51F7CA04.5040707@telus.net>

(I realized I only sent this to Rose the first time, so sending again so 
everyone gets it).

Under the old rules, I believe this would have conflicted with Dafydd 
MacDonald: "(Fieldless) A greyhound's head erased argent collared vert", 
but with the charges to the rules on tertiary charges, I believe this is 
now clear.

No conflicts found.

Alicia

Rose wrote:

> and the second
>
>     fieldless, on a wolf's head erased argent a celtic harp vert
>      
>     Thank you Rose
>     lionsdale
>
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>===============================================
>Principality of Tir Righ College of Heralds mailing list
>Unsubscribe: collegeofheralds-unsubscribe at tirrigh.org
>       Help: collegeofheralds-request at tirrigh.org, subject line "help" (without quotes)
>or http://mail.tirrigh.org/mailman/listinfo/collegeofheralds_tirrigh.org
>  
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> No virus found in this message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com <http://www.avg.com>
> Version: 2013.0.2904 / Virus Database: 3209/6521 - Release Date: 07/25/13
>

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From BasilD at lavabit.com  Tue Jul 30 14:51:26 2013
From: BasilD at lavabit.com (Basil)
Date: Tue, 30 Jul 2013 14:51:26 -0700
Subject: [tirrigh-heralds] Conflict Check needed. please help
In-Reply-To: <4DFFC4219AF24542B0DCAB3A339EBF42@acer9147bc638d>
References: <21F4C5140EEA459C851E088654EF7912@Hermione>
	<4DFFC4219AF24542B0DCAB3A339EBF42@acer9147bc638d>
Message-ID: <51F8355E.6010400@lavabit.com>

On 7/29/2013 10:08 PM, Rose wrote:
> Per chevron azure and argent 2 wolf's heads erased and respectant
> argent a celtic harp vert
> Thank you for the help
> Rose

I didn't find any conflict.


~~Basil Dragonstrike

Er? m?tis cum sim mortuus.

Peritia zmaragdus est; sapientia adam?s est. Compar?vistine impensae 
e?rum n?per?

And it's only the giving that makes you, what you are. -- J. Tull




From BasilD at lavabit.com  Tue Jul 30 15:22:39 2013
From: BasilD at lavabit.com (Basil)
Date: Tue, 30 Jul 2013 15:22:39 -0700
Subject: [tirrigh-heralds] Conflict Check needed. please help
In-Reply-To: <B203AB7A4B844C86BEE10CB398DE0361@acer9147bc638d>
References: <21F4C5140EEA459C851E088654EF7912@Hermione>
	<4DFFC4219AF24542B0DCAB3A339EBF42@acer9147bc638d>
	<B203AB7A4B844C86BEE10CB398DE0361@acer9147bc638d>
Message-ID: <51F83CAF.5090503@lavabit.com>

On 7/29/2013 10:10 PM, Rose wrote:
> and the second
>
>     fieldless, on a wolf's head erased argent a celtic harp vert
>     Thank you Rose
>     lionsdale

I didn't find any conflict.


~~Basil Dragonstrike

So, flying up in a human-rated Dragon (spaceship) is not gonna be an 
issue. -- astronaut Don Pettit

Peritia zmaragdus est; sapientia adam?s est. Compar?vistine impensae 
e?rum n?per?

There IS more than one way to skin a cat, but they all leave you with 
a dead cat. -- B. Dragonstrike




From rose.worldlook at shaw.ca  Wed Jul 31 19:04:00 2013
From: rose.worldlook at shaw.ca (Rose)
Date: Wed, 31 Jul 2013 19:04:00 -0700
Subject: [tirrigh-heralds] Per fess engrailed argent and purpure a dolphin
	enbowed azure and 2 arrows in saltire Or
Message-ID: <373996C23E524DCAA0F1480667D2296A@acer9147bc638d>


My Client has designed a device which is

Per fess engrailed argent and purpure a dolphin enbowed azure and 2 arrows in saltire Or

These are the two that looked close to me can anyone else take a look to see if i missed something. I belive it is clear but i have been known to be wrong before and will be again. 

Thankfully 
Rose
herald of Lions Dale
  a.. 
  b.. 
  c.. 
  d.. Catrin verch Reis Of
    a.. The following device associated with this name was registered in December of 2011 (via Ansteorra):
    Per chevron ploy? purpure and argent, in base a dolphin azure.
    b.. 
    a.. Genevi?ve de Vendome
      a.. The following badge associated with this name was registered in August of 1980 (via the West):
      Per fess engrailed argent and azure, a bottle-nosed dolphin counter-erect embowed [Tursiops truncatus] proper.
    b.. 
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From jdharcus at telus.net  Wed Jul 31 22:29:59 2013
From: jdharcus at telus.net (Judy Harcus)
Date: Wed, 31 Jul 2013 22:29:59 -0700
Subject: [tirrigh-heralds] Per fess engrailed argent and purpure a
 dolphin enbowed azure and 2 arrows in saltire Or
In-Reply-To: <373996C23E524DCAA0F1480667D2296A@acer9147bc638d>
References: <373996C23E524DCAA0F1480667D2296A@acer9147bc638d>
Message-ID: <51F9F257.8070705@telus.net>

Before looking at conflicts, you need to check style.  SENA A3D2c says, 
"A charge group in which postures for different charges must be blazoned 
individually will not be allowed without period examples of that 
combination of postures."
To quote from a previous return: "The charges here do not have 
comparable postures or orientations, but they also are not in a unified 
standard arrangement, as the two chisels in saltire must be blazoned 
separately from the crab in order to adequately describe their 
positioning."  The same applies to this device as it sounds like the 
dolphin and the arrows are both part of the primary charge group.

This is one of the rules that changed with SENA - the arrangement was 
allowed under the old RfS.

Alicia

Rose wrote:

>  
> My Client has designed a device which is
>  
> Per fess engrailed argent and purpure a dolphin enbowed azure and 2 
> arrows in saltire Or
>  
> These are the two that looked close to me can anyone else take a look 
> to see if i missed something. I belive it is clear but i have been 
> known to be wrong before and will be again.
>  
> Thankfully
> Rose
> herald of Lions Dale
>
>    *
>
>
>    *
>
>
>
>    *
>
>
>
>
>     * Catrin verch Reis Of
>       <http://oanda.sca.org/oanda_name.cgi?p=Catrin%20verch%20Reis%20Of>
>           o The following device associated with this name was
>             registered in December of 2011 (via Ansteorra)
>             <http://oanda.sca.org/oanda_date.cgi?y1=2011&m1=December&y2=2011&m2=December&kX=checked>:
>             Per chevron ploy? purpure and argent, in base a dolphin azure.
>          o
>
>           o Genevi?ve de Vendome
>             <http://oanda.sca.org/oanda_name.cgi?p=Genevieve%20de%20Vendome>
>
>                 + The following badge associated with this name was
>                   registered in August of 1980 (via the West)
>                   <http://oanda.sca.org/oanda_date.cgi?y1=1980&m1=August&y2=1980&m2=August&kW=checked>:
>                   Per fess engrailed argent and azure, a bottle-nosed
>                   dolphin counter-erect embowed [Tursiops truncatus]
>                   proper.
>          o
>
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>===============================================
>Principality of Tir Righ College of Heralds mailing list
>Unsubscribe: collegeofheralds-unsubscribe at tirrigh.org
>       Help: collegeofheralds-request at tirrigh.org, subject line "help" (without quotes)
>or http://mail.tirrigh.org/mailman/listinfo/collegeofheralds_tirrigh.org
>  
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> No virus found in this message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com <http://www.avg.com>
> Version: 2013.0.2904 / Virus Database: 3209/6521 - Release Date: 07/25/13
>

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From oddr at thuban.org  Wed Jul 31 22:57:51 2013
From: oddr at thuban.org (=?utf-8?B?T2RkciBtasera3NpZ2xhbmRp?=)
Date: Thu, 1 Aug 2013 05:57:51 +0000
Subject: [tirrigh-heralds] [antir-heralds] Per fess engrailed argent and
 purpure a dolphin enbowed azure and 2 arrows in saltire Or
In-Reply-To: <51F9F257.8070705@telus.net>
References: <373996C23E524DCAA0F1480667D2296A@acer9147bc638d>,
	<51F9F257.8070705@telus.net>
Message-ID: <aacf08e350464e91abf7f2db06fccf6f@BY2PR07MB041.namprd07.prod.outlook.com>

However? a sheaf of arrows might work, if a sheaf is considered its own thing. I forget if we have a ruling on that yet.

If so, add a third arrow to the bundle of two arrows.

--
Oddr mj?ksiglandi (JdL, WOAW, Golden Estoile)
Lions Blood Herald
Prot?g? to Maistreas Anderwyn na Sionain, OP
Apprentice to Countess Elisabeth de Rossignol, OL OP
Per saltire arrondi vert and Or.

From: Judy Harcus
Sent: ?Wednesday?, ?July? ?31?, ?2013 ?10?:?30? ?PM
To: Rose
Cc: 'An Tir Heralds', collegeofheralds at tirrigh.org

Before looking at conflicts, you need to check style.  SENA A3D2c says,
"A charge group in which postures for different charges must be blazoned
individually will not be allowed without period examples of that
combination of postures."
To quote from a previous return: "The charges here do not have
comparable postures or orientations, but they also are not in a unified
standard arrangement, as the two chisels in saltire must be blazoned
separately from the crab in order to adequately describe their
positioning."  The same applies to this device as it sounds like the
dolphin and the arrows are both part of the primary charge group.

This is one of the rules that changed with SENA - the arrangement was
allowed under the old RfS.

Alicia

Rose wrote:

>
> My Client has designed a device which is
>
> Per fess engrailed argent and purpure a dolphin enbowed azure and 2
> arrows in saltire Or
>
> These are the two that looked close to me can anyone else take a look
> to see if i missed something. I belive it is clear but i have been
> known to be wrong before and will be again.
>
> Thankfully
> Rose
> herald of Lions Dale
>
>    *
>
>
>    *
>
>
>
>    *
>
>
>
>
>     * Catrin verch Reis Of
>       <http://oanda.sca.org/oanda_name.cgi?p=Catrin%20verch%20Reis%20Of>
>           o The following device associated with this name was
>             registered in December of 2011 (via Ansteorra)
>             <http://oanda.sca.org/oanda_date.cgi?y1=2011&m1=December&y2=2011&m2=December&kX=checked>:
>             Per chevron ploy? purpure and argent, in base a dolphin azure.
>          o
>
>           o Genevi?ve de Vendome
>             <http://oanda.sca.org/oanda_name.cgi?p=Genevieve%20de%20Vendome>
>
>                 + The following badge associated with this name was
>                   registered in August of 1980 (via the West)
>                   <http://oanda.sca.org/oanda_date.cgi?y1=1980&m1=August&y2=1980&m2=August&kW=checked>:
>                   Per fess engrailed argent and azure, a bottle-nosed
>                   dolphin counter-erect embowed [Tursiops truncatus]
>                   proper.
>          o
>
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
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