From bear_necessities at telus.net  Wed Apr  2 15:55:47 2014
From: bear_necessities at telus.net (Morel Carr Zupanic)
Date: Wed, 2 Apr 2014 15:55:47 -0700
Subject: [tirrigh-heralds] Conflict check - seeblatts
Message-ID: <C45D621E0E294606985EA4BCE6C66EF3@OwnerPC>

Can I please get a conflict check for (Fieldless) In pall three seeblatter 
conjoined at the points argent.

Doireann Dechti 




From oddr at thuban.org  Wed Apr  2 16:14:10 2014
From: oddr at thuban.org (=?utf-8?B?T2RkciDDnmnDoWxmYXNvbg==?=)
Date: Wed, 2 Apr 2014 23:14:10 +0000
Subject: [tirrigh-heralds] [antir-heralds] Conflict check - seeblatts
In-Reply-To: <alpine.LRH.2.01.1404021600440.25000@homer01.u.washington.edu>
References: <C45D621E0E294606985EA4BCE6C66EF3@OwnerPC>,
	<alpine.LRH.2.01.1404021600440.25000@homer01.u.washington.edu>
Message-ID: <431ff6b1c9e94765ba376d4f26130cc6@BY2PR07MB041.namprd07.prod.outlook.com>

Funny-looking leaf-thing.  For example, in the arms of Amia Turner: http://rollofarms.antirheralds.org/display.php?id=2004

--
Oddr ?i?lfason (JdL, WOAW, Golden Estoile)
Motley Pursuivant
Prot?g? to Maistreas Anderwyn na Sionain, OP
Apprentice to Countess Elisabeth de Rossignol, OL OP
Per saltire arrondi vert and Or.
________________________________
From: Kathleen Marshall<mailto:bookworm at u.washington.edu>
Sent: ?4/?2/?2014 16:05
To: Morel Carr Zupanic<mailto:bear_necessities at telus.net>
Cc: AnTir Heralds<mailto:antir-heralds at antir.sca.org>; Tir Righ Heralds<mailto:collegeofheralds at tirrigh.org>
Subject: Re: [antir-heralds] Conflict check - seeblatts

What's a seeblatter?

Saewynn, feeling stupid

On Wed, 2 Apr 2014, Morel Carr Zupanic wrote:

> Can I please get a conflict check for (Fieldless) In pall three seeblatter
> conjoined at the points argent.
>
> Doireann Dechti
>
> _______________________________________________
> antir-heralds mailing list
> antir-heralds at antir.sca.org
> http://antir.sca.org/mailman/listinfo/antir-heralds_antir.sca.org
>

_______________________________________________
antir-heralds mailing list
antir-heralds at antir.sca.org
http://antir.sca.org/mailman/listinfo/antir-heralds_antir.sca.org
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://tirrigh.org/pipermail/collegeofheralds_tirrigh.org/attachments/20140402/2b267672/attachment.htm>

From bear_necessities at telus.net  Wed Apr  2 16:25:52 2014
From: bear_necessities at telus.net (Morel Carr Zupanic)
Date: Wed, 2 Apr 2014 16:25:52 -0700
Subject: [tirrigh-heralds] [antir-heralds] Conflict check - seeblatts
In-Reply-To: <alpine.LRH.2.01.1404021600440.25000@homer01.u.washington.edu>
References: <C45D621E0E294606985EA4BCE6C66EF3@OwnerPC>
	<alpine.LRH.2.01.1404021600440.25000@homer01.u.washington.edu>
Message-ID: <21975CBA392C4ABE945CC813C3D3B9BE@OwnerPC>

What's a seeblatter?
**********************

What Oddr said!  Singular is seeblatt, and they conflict with hearts and 
some other leaves.  I have not been able to determine what leaves, but I 
have found out they do not conflict with standard leaf shapes, linden 
leaves, and I am hoping and pretty sure they don't conflict with oak leaves. 
I found a device with oak leaves that would otherwise conflict.

Doireann 




From jdharcus at telus.net  Wed Apr  2 16:30:46 2014
From: jdharcus at telus.net (jdharcus)
Date: Wed, 2 Apr 2014 17:30:46 -0600 (MDT)
Subject: [tirrigh-heralds] [antir-heralds] Conflict check - seeblatts
In-Reply-To: <alpine.LRH.2.01.1404021600440.25000@homer01.u.washington.edu>
References: <C45D621E0E294606985EA4BCE6C66EF3@OwnerPC>
	<alpine.LRH.2.01.1404021600440.25000@homer01.u.washington.edu>
Message-ID: <1572466411.27512277.1396481446217.JavaMail.root@mailid.telus.net>

It looks kind of like a heart with a trifoil cutout in the center.  I believe it's a heraldic waterlily leaf.
You can see one here: http://rollofarms.antirheralds.org/display.php?id=2004
Alicia

----- Original Message -----
From: "Kathleen Marshall" <bookworm at u.washington.edu>
To: "Morel Carr Zupanic" <bear_necessities at telus.net>
Cc: "AnTir Heralds" <antir-heralds at antir.sca.org>, "Tir Righ Heralds" <collegeofheralds at tirrigh.org>
Sent: Wednesday, April 2, 2014 4:01:06 PM
Subject: Re: [antir-heralds] Conflict check - seeblatts

What's a seeblatter?

Saewynn, feeling stupid

On Wed, 2 Apr 2014, Morel Carr Zupanic wrote:

> Can I please get a conflict check for (Fieldless) In pall three seeblatter 
> conjoined at the points argent.
>
> Doireann Dechti 
>
> _______________________________________________
> antir-heralds mailing list
> antir-heralds at antir.sca.org
> http://antir.sca.org/mailman/listinfo/antir-heralds_antir.sca.org
>

_______________________________________________
antir-heralds mailing list
antir-heralds at antir.sca.org
http://antir.sca.org/mailman/listinfo/antir-heralds_antir.sca.org



From bookworm at u.washington.edu  Wed Apr  2 16:01:06 2014
From: bookworm at u.washington.edu (Kathleen Marshall)
Date: Wed, 2 Apr 2014 16:01:06 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [tirrigh-heralds] [antir-heralds] Conflict check - seeblatts
In-Reply-To: <C45D621E0E294606985EA4BCE6C66EF3@OwnerPC>
References: <C45D621E0E294606985EA4BCE6C66EF3@OwnerPC>
Message-ID: <alpine.LRH.2.01.1404021600440.25000@homer01.u.washington.edu>

What's a seeblatter?

Saewynn, feeling stupid

On Wed, 2 Apr 2014, Morel Carr Zupanic wrote:

> Can I please get a conflict check for (Fieldless) In pall three seeblatter 
> conjoined at the points argent.
>
> Doireann Dechti 
>
> _______________________________________________
> antir-heralds mailing list
> antir-heralds at antir.sca.org
> http://antir.sca.org/mailman/listinfo/antir-heralds_antir.sca.org
>



From bear_necessities at telus.net  Mon Apr  7 15:26:38 2014
From: bear_necessities at telus.net (Morel Carr Zupanic)
Date: Mon, 7 Apr 2014 15:26:38 -0700
Subject: [tirrigh-heralds] Resending:  Conflict check - seeblatter
In-Reply-To: <C45D621E0E294606985EA4BCE6C66EF3@OwnerPC>
References: <C45D621E0E294606985EA4BCE6C66EF3@OwnerPC>
Message-ID: <960395D24A8D4FA797F6F7268C9AF675@OwnerPC>

I'm giving this another shot, as the potential submitter would like to get 
this mailed away very soon.  Any help would be appreciated.

Can I please get a conflict check for (Fieldless) In pall three seeblatter
conjoined at the points argent.

>From another email:
Singular is seeblatt, and they conflict with hearts and some other leaves. 
I have not been able to determine what leaves, but I
have found out they do not conflict with standard leaf shapes, linden 
leaves, and I am hoping and pretty sure they don't conflict with oak leaves.
I found a device with oak leaves that would otherwise conflict.

Doireann Dechti 


---
This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active.
http://www.avast.com




From BasilD at zoho.com  Tue Apr  8 18:46:24 2014
From: BasilD at zoho.com (Basil)
Date: Tue, 08 Apr 2014 18:46:24 -0700
Subject: [tirrigh-heralds] [antir-heralds] Resending: Conflict check -
 seeblatter
In-Reply-To: <960395D24A8D4FA797F6F7268C9AF675@OwnerPC>
References: <C45D621E0E294606985EA4BCE6C66EF3@OwnerPC>
	<960395D24A8D4FA797F6F7268C9AF675@OwnerPC>
Message-ID: <5344A670.5030308@zoho.com>

On 4/7/2014 3:26 PM, Morel Carr Zupanic wrote:
> I'm giving this another shot, as the potential submitter would like to get this
> mailed away very soon.  Any help would be appreciated.
>
> Can I please get a conflict check for (Fieldless) In pall three seeblatter
> conjoined at the points argent.

I'm really busy right now, and don't have time to do a precedent dive for what 
is/isn't a DC from a seeblat. The following may or may not conflict, based on 
that question.

Theodora Delamore
The following badge associated with this name was registered in February of 2002 
(via Atlantia):
(Fieldless) Three ivy leaves conjoined in pall argent.
{One DC for fieldlessness}

Ki no Kotori
The following device associated with this name was registered in December of 
2005 (via Calontir):
Gules, three holly leaves conjoined in pall and fructed argent.
{One DC for fieldlessness; I don't believe fructing is worth a DC}

Eva de Castille
The following device associated with this name was registered in June of 2010 
(via Caid):
Per pale gules and sable, in pall three seebl?tter with points outward argent.
{One DC for fieldlessness; I don't know if points-in versus points-out is worth 
a DC}

I didn't see anything else.


~~Basil Dragonstrike

Help out, please: http://www.squidoo.com/lensmasters/rowanchisholm

Ah, but I was so much older then; I'm younger than that, now. -- Bob Dylan

Disobedience is Mandatory!




From jdharcus at telus.net  Tue Apr  8 19:01:41 2014
From: jdharcus at telus.net (Judy Harcus)
Date: Tue, 08 Apr 2014 19:01:41 -0700
Subject: [tirrigh-heralds] [antir-heralds] Resending: Conflict check -
 seeblatter
In-Reply-To: <5344A670.5030308@zoho.com>
References: <C45D621E0E294606985EA4BCE6C66EF3@OwnerPC>	<960395D24A8D4FA797F6F7268C9AF675@OwnerPC>
	<5344A670.5030308@zoho.com>
Message-ID: <5344AA05.4010509@telus.net>

I found some precedents regarding seeblatter here: 
http://heraldry.sca.org/precedents/francois/wreath.html#LEAF
Based on those, I think the first two arms cited by Basil mostly likely 
do not conflict as the leaves are different in shape.
As for the third one, I can't find a precedent at the moment but I would 
think that this counts for a change in orientation as the two ends are 
distinctively different.

Alicia

Basil wrote:

> On 4/7/2014 3:26 PM, Morel Carr Zupanic wrote:
>
>> I'm giving this another shot, as the potential submitter would like 
>> to get this
>> mailed away very soon.  Any help would be appreciated.
>>
>> Can I please get a conflict check for (Fieldless) In pall three 
>> seeblatter
>> conjoined at the points argent.
>
>
> I'm really busy right now, and don't have time to do a precedent dive 
> for what is/isn't a DC from a seeblat. The following may or may not 
> conflict, based on that question.
>
> Theodora Delamore
> The following badge associated with this name was registered in 
> February of 2002 (via Atlantia):
> (Fieldless) Three ivy leaves conjoined in pall argent.
> {One DC for fieldlessness}
>
> Ki no Kotori
> The following device associated with this name was registered in 
> December of 2005 (via Calontir):
> Gules, three holly leaves conjoined in pall and fructed argent.
> {One DC for fieldlessness; I don't believe fructing is worth a DC}
>
> Eva de Castille
> The following device associated with this name was registered in June 
> of 2010 (via Caid):
> Per pale gules and sable, in pall three seebl?tter with points outward 
> argent.
> {One DC for fieldlessness; I don't know if points-in versus points-out 
> is worth a DC}
>
> I didn't see anything else.
>
>
> ~~Basil Dragonstrike
>
> Help out, please: http://www.squidoo.com/lensmasters/rowanchisholm
>
> Ah, but I was so much older then; I'm younger than that, now. -- Bob 
> Dylan
>
> Disobedience is Mandatory!
>
>
> ===============================================
> Principality of Tir Righ College of Heralds mailing list
> Unsubscribe: collegeofheralds-unsubscribe at tirrigh.org
>       Help: collegeofheralds-request at tirrigh.org, subject line "help" 
> (without quotes)
> or http://mail.tirrigh.org/mailman/listinfo/collegeofheralds_tirrigh.org
>
>
> -----
> No virus found in this message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> Version: 2013.0.3466 / Virus Database: 3722/7313 - Release Date: 04/07/14





From bear_necessities at telus.net  Tue Apr  8 22:40:14 2014
From: bear_necessities at telus.net (Morel Carr Zupanic)
Date: Tue, 8 Apr 2014 22:40:14 -0700
Subject: [tirrigh-heralds] [antir-heralds] Resending: Conflict check -
	seeblatter
In-Reply-To: <5344A670.5030308@zoho.com>
References: <C45D621E0E294606985EA4BCE6C66EF3@OwnerPC><960395D24A8D4FA797F6F7268C9AF675@OwnerPC>
	<5344A670.5030308@zoho.com>
Message-ID: <FACCF8D3D6374C7F8418CA3F31BA0358@OwnerPC>

Basil wrote:
I'm really busy right now, and don't have time to do a precedent dive for 
what
is/isn't a DC from a seeblat. The following may or may not conflict, based 
on
that question.

Alicia wrote:
I found some precedents regarding seeblatter here:
http://heraldry.sca.org/precedents/francois/wreath.html#LEAF
Based on those, I think the first two arms cited by Basil mostly likely
do not conflict as the leaves are different in shape.
As for the third one, I can't find a precedent at the moment but I would
think that this counts for a change in orientation as the two ends are
distinctively different.
******************************

Thank you both for giving this the time that  you have been able to, though 
you are both busy.  I had also looked at the precedents, and feel confident 
that the leaves in question do not conflict.  I did not think to look at the 
orientation issue specifically but, as I had looked for seeblatter, I am 
sure that I would have seen it, if it existed.  Please let me know if you do 
find a precedent, in this situation.

Again, thank you both, very much!

Doireann Dechti 


---
This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active.
http://www.avast.com




From cocinera at shaw.ca  Thu Apr 24 20:05:17 2014
From: cocinera at shaw.ca (Rosemary Underhill)
Date: Thu, 24 Apr 2014 20:05:17 -0700
Subject: [tirrigh-heralds] Re Heralds 1st Quarter Report
Message-ID: <D52AEBFB69DB454590ABD0BB05C6602C@Hermione>

Greetings Branch Heralds and Seneschals 

 

Just a quick reminder that the Reports are due by May 1.    Even if you have
had no activity this quarter, please send a report letting us know.  Any
questions about the reports, please ask me. 

 

With thanks,

 

Yours in heraldic service, 

Theocharista Doukaina,

Reporting Deputy Herald, Tir Righ

 




-----
No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 2014.0.4570 / Virus Database: 3920/7390 - Release Date: 04/24/14
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://tirrigh.org/pipermail/collegeofheralds_tirrigh.org/attachments/20140424/402338bb/attachment.htm>

From wlchick at hotmail.com  Sun Apr  6 19:01:36 2014
From: wlchick at hotmail.com (Renee)
Date: Mon, 07 Apr 2014 02:01:36 -0000
Subject: [tirrigh-heralds] Style and Conflict check please
Message-ID: <BLU404-EAS249D8043F7C00B00677DA5FBE680@phx.gbl>

I'm thinking of choosing Aoife N? Mh?ille (eefa ni malley) as my sca persona.

1) Ao?fe was a female warrior with a twin sister from Irish mythology. http://www.behindthename.com/name/aoife

2) Aoife MacMurrough (c.1145?1188, Irish: Aoife N? Diarmait), also known by later historians as Eva of Leinster, was the daughter of Dermot MacMurrough (c.1110-1171) (Irish: Diarmait MacMurchada), King of Leinster, and his wife Mor O'Toole (c.1114-1191). Aoife conducted battles on behalf of her husband Richard "Strongbow" de Clare, a Norman knight, and is sometimes known as Red Eva (Irish: Aoife Rua).  
SOURCE:
PATRICK HANKS, KATE HARDCASTLE, and FLAVIA HODGES. "Aoife." A Dictionary of First Names. 2006. Oxford University Press. Encyclopedia.com. 7 Jan. 2010 <http://www.encyclopedia.com>.

3) "Pirate queen" Grainne N? Mh?ille (anglicized Grace O'Malley) was Queen of Umaill, chieftain of the ? M?ille clan following in the footsteps of her father Eoghan Dubhdara ? M?ille. Upon his death, she inherited his large shipping and trading business.
Born: 1530, County Mayo, Republic of Ireland
Died: June 18, 1603, Rockfleet Castle
SOURCE:
http://www.geni.com/people/Gr?inne-N%C3%AD-Mh?ille-Sea-Queen-of-Connacht/6000000002758659133
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://tirrigh.org/pipermail/collegeofheralds_tirrigh.org/attachments/20140407/142c12a3/attachment.htm>

From jdharcus at telus.net  Mon Apr 28 16:27:57 2014
From: jdharcus at telus.net (jdharcus)
Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2014 17:27:57 -0600 (MDT)
Subject: [tirrigh-heralds] Style and Conflict check please
In-Reply-To: <BLU404-EAS249D8043F7C00B00677DA5FBE680@phx.gbl>
References: <BLU404-EAS249D8043F7C00B00677DA5FBE680@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <2079668879.7001524.1398727677057.JavaMail.root@mailid.telus.net>

I found this in one of the Academy of Saint Gabriel reports (#2028): <Ai/fe> (early spelling) or <Aoife> (late spelling) may not have been used by real people in our period. O Corrain and Maguire list it, but only cite legendary/literary examples. We have found no example of it otherwise. The Pelican Queen of Arms ruled Sept 2002 that it is not registerable without further evidence. See http://www.sca.org/heraldry/loar/2002/09/02-09cl.html, under the heading "From Pelican: Registerability of the Name Aife/Aoife". 

I'm out of time right now so can't check any further at this point. 

Alicia 
----- Original Message -----

From: "Renee" <wlchick at hotmail.com> 
To: collegeofheralds at tirrigh.org 
Sent: Sunday, April 6, 2014 7:01:33 PM 
Subject: [tirrigh-heralds] Style and Conflict check please 

I'm thinking of choosing Aoife N? Mh?ille (eefa ni malley) as my sca persona. 

1) Ao?fe was a female warrior with a twin sister from Irish mythology. http://www.behindthename.com/name/aoife 

2) Aoife MacMurrough (c.1145?1188, Irish: Aoife N? Diarmait), also known by later historians as Eva of Leinster, was the daughter of Dermot MacMurrough (c.1110-1171) (Irish: Diarmait MacMurchada), King of Leinster, and his wife Mor O'Toole (c.1114-1191). Aoife conducted battles on behalf of her husband Richard "Strongbow" de Clare, a Norman knight, and is sometimes known as Red Eva (Irish: Aoife Rua). 
SOURCE: 
PATRICK HANKS, KATE HARDCASTLE, and FLAVIA HODGES. "Aoife." A Dictionary of First Names. 2006. Oxford University Press. Encyclopedia.com . 7 Jan. 2010 < http://www.encyclopedia.com >. 

3) "Pirate queen" Grainne N? Mh?ille (anglicized Grace O'Malley) was Queen of Umaill, chieftain of the ? M?ille clan following in the footsteps of her father Eoghan Dubhdara ? M?ille. Upon his death, she inherited his large shipping and trading business. 
Born: 1530, County Mayo, Republic of Ireland 
Died: June 18, 1603, Rockfleet Castle 
SOURCE: 
http://www.geni.com/people/Gr?inne-N%C3%AD-Mh?ille-Sea-Queen-of-Connacht/6000000002758659133 

=============================================== 
Principality of Tir Righ College of Heralds mailing list 
Unsubscribe: collegeofheralds-unsubscribe at tirrigh.org 
Help: collegeofheralds-request at tirrigh.org, subject line "help" (without quotes) 
or http://mail.tirrigh.org/mailman/listinfo/collegeofheralds_tirrigh.org 

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://tirrigh.org/pipermail/collegeofheralds_tirrigh.org/attachments/20140428/03b1f9af/attachment.htm>

From BasilD at zoho.com  Tue Apr 29 11:10:02 2014
From: BasilD at zoho.com (Basil)
Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2014 11:10:02 -0700
Subject: [tirrigh-heralds] Style and Conflict check please
In-Reply-To: <2079668879.7001524.1398727677057.JavaMail.root@mailid.telus.net>
References: <BLU404-EAS249D8043F7C00B00677DA5FBE680@phx.gbl>
	<2079668879.7001524.1398727677057.JavaMail.root@mailid.telus.net>
Message-ID: <535FEAFA.5080002@zoho.com>

On 4/28/2014 4:27 PM, jdharcus wrote:
> I found this in one of the Academy of Saint Gabriel reports (#2028): <Ai/fe>
> (early spelling) or <Aoife> (late spelling) may not have been used by real
> people in our period. O Corrain and Maguire list it, but only cite
> legendary/literary examples. We have found no example of it otherwise. The
> Pelican Queen of Arms ruled Sept 2002 that it is not registerable without
> further evidence. See http://www.sca.org/heraldry/loar/2002/09/02-09cl.html,
> under the heading "From Pelican: Registerability of the Name Aife/Aoife".

That's was overturned in May 2010:

Aoife inghean Tuathail. Name.

     There was some question regarding the registerability of the name Aoife. 
This name has previously was ruled unregisterable (in the Cover Letter for the 
09/2002 LoAR) lacking evidence of this name used by humans in period. Since that 
time, evidence has been found this name in the 11th - 13th C. Two women with 
forms of this name are dated to 1166-1173 and 1227 in "Index of Names in Irish 
Annals: A?fe / Aoife" 
(http://www.medievalscotland.org/kmo/AnnalsIndex/Feminine/Aife.shtml). 
Additionally, Colm Dubh "The Ban-Shenchus: A Dated Index" (KWHS, 2003) lists 5 
women with this name:

         Aife (fl. 12th)
         Aife ingen Uguaire (ob. 1112)
         Aife ingene hUi Ogaon (fl. 12th)
         Aife mathair Con Criche (ob 1042)
         Aife mathair Diarmada (ob. 1072)
         Aife mathair Gilla Padraig (ob. 1042)

     Based on this new information, we are overturning the previous ruling. This 
name is now registerable as a feminine name used in the 11th - 13th C. The 
standard Middle Irish (c. 900-c. 1200) form of this name is A?fe and the 
standard Early Modern Irish (c. 1200 - c. 1700) form of this name is Aoife.


~~Basil Dragonstrike

Help out, please: http://www.squidoo.com/lensmasters/rowanchisholm

Er? m?tis cum sim mortuus.

My reality check was returned for insufficient funds.