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Yes, the issue is that although we have permission for our order name
to conflict with Silversparre Herald, I neglected to ask permission for
a heraldic title to conflict as well. As the return mentions, if we
have an order name registered, we are allowed to use a herald's title
based on that whether or not we register the herald's title which
creates a potential conflict. Juliana and I had a discussion on the
weekend about appealing as there appears to be grounds for this. To be
sure we could also request a new letter giving permission to conflict
for *both* the order name and the heraldic title. Given who just won
Drachenwald's Crown Tourney, Juliana suggested that we might wish to
wait another month or so before making this new request. These seems a
wise course to me.<br>
<br>
Alicia<br>
<br>
Caitrina many hats MacAndrew wrote:<br>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="navy" face="Arial" size="2"><span
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; color: navy;">Thanks for
posting Tomas </span></font><font color="navy" face="Wingdings"
size="2"><span
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Wingdings; color: navy;">J</span></font><font
color="navy" face="Arial" size="2"><span
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; color: navy;"><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="navy" face="Arial" size="2"><span
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; color: navy;"><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="navy" face="Arial" size="2"><span
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; color: navy;">I believe
this may be a typo on the <st1:City w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on">Laurel</st1:place></st1:City>
letter. As far as
I knew, we had permission to conflict with the “Order of the
Silversparre”.
Unfortunately this does not automatically assume we have permission to
also
conflict with the heraldic title Silversparre Herald and we need an
additional
letter to clear that conflict. Red Flame advised me of the issue at
the
Symposium and it is in the works to clear conflict.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="navy" face="Arial" size="2"><span
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; color: navy;"><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="navy" face="Arial" size="2"><span
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; color: navy;">Alicia can
you confirm?<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="navy" face="Arial" size="2"><span
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; color: navy;"><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="navy" face="Arial" size="2"><span
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; color: navy;">Caitrina <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="navy" face="Arial" size="2"><span
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; color: navy;"><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
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<hr tabindex="-1" align="center" size="2" width="100%"></span></font></div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><font face="Tahoma" size="2"><span
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma; font-weight: bold;">From:</span></font></b><font
face="Tahoma" size="2"><span
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma;">
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:collegeofheralds-bounces@tirrigh.org">collegeofheralds-bounces@tirrigh.org</a>
[<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:collegeofheralds-bounces@tirrigh.org">mailto:collegeofheralds-bounces@tirrigh.org</a>] <b><span
style="font-weight: bold;">On
Behalf Of </span></b>Tomas<br>
<b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Sent:</span></b> Wednesday, April
14, 2010
9:02 AM<br>
<b><span style="font-weight: bold;">To:</span></b> (list) Tir Righ
Heralds<br>
<b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Subject:</span></b>
[tirrigh-heralds]
Question regarding the Laurel Letter</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span
style="font-size: 12pt;"><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font face="Calibri" size="3"><span
style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: Calibri;">In the new letter that
just got posted I saw this in the
returns section:</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span
style="font-size: 12pt;"> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span
style="font-size: 12pt; font-weight: bold;">Tir Rígh, Principality of.</span></font></b>
Order name Order of the Silver Sparkes. <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span
style="font-size: 12pt;">This is
returned for conflict with Drachenwald's heraldic title <i><span
style="font-style: italic;">Silversparre Herald</span></i>. The
commenters were
agreed that there is insignificant difference in sound and appearance
between
these two names. <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span
style="font-size: 12pt;">While the
submitters provided a letter from the King and Queen of Drachenwald
permitting
this order name to conflict with <i><span style="font-style: italic;">Silversparre
Herald</span></i>, this is one of the rare cases where the letter of
permission
to conflict is not sufficient to allow the order name to be registered.
Current
practices allows someone owning Order of the X to use X Herald or X
Pursuivant
(v. Order of the Caltrop, LoAR 10/1999, R-Æthelmearc). The heraldic
title <i><span style="font-style: italic;">Silver Sparkes Herald</span></i>
also conflicts with <i><span style="font-style: italic;">Silversparre
Herald</span></i>, and as permission to
conflict was not received for that title, it was returned elsewhere on
this
LoAR. We cannot register <i><span style="font-style: italic;">Order of
the Silver
Sparkes</span></i> to the kingdom since this would allow them to use
the
corresponding heraldic title, with which they do not have permission to
conflict. <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p><b><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span
style="font-size: 12pt; font-weight: bold;">Tir Rígh, Principality of.</span></font></b>
Heraldic title
Silver Sparkes Herald. <o:p></o:p></p>
<p><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span
style="font-size: 12pt;">This is
returned for conflict with Drachenwald's heraldic title <i><span
style="font-style: italic;">Silversparre Herald</span></i>. The
commenters were
agreed that there is insignificant difference in sound and appearance
between
these two titles. <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span
style="font-size: 12pt;"> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p><font face="Calibri" size="3"><span
style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: Calibri;">I'm
afraid that I didn't quite understand why permission to conflict isn't
permission to conflict in this case. That, and I thought it would be
neat
for us to start discussing things on this list <img id="_x0000_i1025"
src="cid:part1.05060302.04080206@telus.net"
style="margin: 0px; float: none; position: static;"
alt="Smile emoticon" title="Smile emoticon" tabindex="-1"
msnnonuserimageoremoticon="true" height="19" width="19">.</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><font face="Calibri" size="3"><span
style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: Calibri;">------------------------------------------------------------------<br>
The Honorable Tomas de Courcy (GdS)<br>
Arts and Sciences Defender of Lions Gate<br>
Lionsdale Webminister</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
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