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Tomas wrote:<br>
<blockquote cite="midD754819ECEC64DCDBEC9AD161F6A3376@Aslan" type="cite">Greetings;
<br>
<br>
I'm not certain that I'll submit this badge, but I felt that it was a
good idea to try running it through the OandA.
<br>
<br>
Fieldless, on a pale vert three plates
<br>
or
<br>
Fieldless, on a pale vert three roundels argent
<br>
<br>
If I understand these two are the same.
<br>
</blockquote>
Yes, these are identical as a plate is a fancy way of saying roundel
argent.<br>
<br>
First let's check for style issues. Check the Rules for Submission
VIII.5 Fieldless Style. "Fieldless armory must form a self-contained
design. A fieldless design must have all its elements conjoined, like
the three feathers issuinf form a crown used by the Heir Apparent to
the throne of England. Since there is no field in such a design, it
may not use charges that rely on the edges of the field to define their
shape, such as bordures and orles, nor to cut off their ends, such as
ordinaries or charges throughout."<br>
<br>
So what does a pale couped look like? A saltire couped is fairly
obvious - it's an X. To me, a pale couped would be the same as a
billet (which is basically a tall rectangle). <br>
<br>
Taking a look at the precedents, I couldn't find anything specific
about allowing/disallowing a pale couped, however I did find this in
the precedents of Elizabeth de Rossignol, under Fieldless:<br>
"[(Fieldless) On a billet fesswise vert, seven annulets interlaced
in fess Or.] This is returned for style problems. First, a billet
is a shape used for heraldic display. This appears to be a display
of <i>Vert, seven annulets interlaced in fess Or</i>. As precedent
notes:
<blockquote>We do not register fieldless badges which appear to be
independent forms of armorial display. Charges such as lozenges,
billets, and roundels are all both standard heraldic charges and
"shield shapes" for armorial display. ...</blockquote>
Therefore, a "shield shape" which is also a standard heraldic
charge will be acceptable as a fieldless badge in a plain tincture,
as long as the tincture is not one of the plain tinctures that is
protected armory in the SCA. This explicitly overturns the
precedent "We do not normally register fieldless badges consisting
only of forms of armorial display, such as roundels, lozenges and
delfs in plain tinctures, since in use the shape does not appear to
be a charge, but rather the field itself" (LoAR January 1998).Note
that this does not change our long-standing policy about such
"shield shape" charges used in fieldless badges if the tincture is
not plain (thus, divided or with a field treatment), or if the
charge is itself charged. Such armory will continue to be returned
for the appearance of an independent form of armorial
display.[Solveig Throndardottir, 04/02, A-Æthelmearc] [<b>Brion
Gennadyevich Gorodin</b>, <a
href="http://heraldry.sca.org/loar/2005/07/05-07lar.html">07/05</a>,
R-Trimaris]"<br>
<br>
So I suspect that your proposed badge would be considered the same as
"Vert, three plates".<br>
<br>
Maybe Teceangl or someone can find additional information on this.<br>
<br>
Alicia<br>
<blockquote cite="midD754819ECEC64DCDBEC9AD161F6A3376@Aslan" type="cite"><br>
Now, I get one CD for being fieldless. I have a CD against anything
with a different primary charge (pale vert). Now if I understand this
then, even though fieldless is a tincture difference I also have a CD
against other tinctures of Pale. So anything that was pale sable etc
does not conflict.
<br>
<br>
So I'm looking for other pale verts with secondary or tertiary charges.
<br>
<br>
Argent semy of oak leaves, on a pale vert a fleur-de-lys Or.
<br>
Argent semy of strawberry leaves, on a pale vert, a wolf salient
argent.
<br>
Argent semy-de-lys azure, on a pale vert a Celtic cross argent.
<br>
Argent, on a pale vert a crescent above three acorns Or.
<br>
There are a number of these that are similar, but am I correct in
thinking that by having a different tertiary charge I have a CD?
<br>
<br>
Argent, on a pale vert between in chief two wolves combattant sable
three mullets Or.
<br>
There are also a number like this with charges to the sides of the
pale. I assume that they would be secondary charges? As long as they
don't have the same tertiary charge as mine I am totally fine, correct?
<br>
<br>
Am I missing anything?
<br>
<br>
-TdC <br>
<br>
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