[tirrigh-heralds] I'll give this a try as well

[Tomas]

Thank you.  Hmm... Would Vert Three Plates pass?  I can't find anything else with three plates or even three roundels.  Though I suspect that's just my inexperience.  Now, with Vert Three Plates that would mean that as long as I have a different primary charge than anything else it would pass, correct?  Or would Vert Three Random other things conflict with me?

-TdC


From: Judy Harcus 
Sent: Thursday, May 13, 2010 1:42 PM
To: Tomas 
Cc: (list) Tir Righ Heralds 
Subject: Re: [tirrigh-heralds] I'll give this a try as well


Tomas wrote:

  Greetings; 

  I'm not certain that I'll submit this badge, but I felt that it was a good idea to try running it through the OandA. 

  Fieldless, on a pale vert three plates 
  or 
  Fieldless, on a pale vert three roundels argent 

  If I understand these two are the same. 

Yes, these are identical as a plate is a fancy way of saying roundel argent.

First let's check for style issues.  Check the Rules for Submission VIII.5 Fieldless Style.  "Fieldless armory must form a self-contained design.  A fieldless design must have all its elements conjoined, like the three feathers issuinf form a crown used by the Heir Apparent to the throne of England.  Since there is no field in such a design, it may not use charges that rely on the edges of the field to define their shape, such as bordures and orles, nor to cut off their ends, such as ordinaries or charges throughout."

So what does a pale couped look like?  A saltire couped is fairly obvious - it's an X.  To me, a pale couped would be the same as a billet (which is basically a tall rectangle). 

Taking a look at the precedents, I couldn't find anything specific about allowing/disallowing a pale couped, however I did find this in the precedents of Elizabeth de Rossignol, under Fieldless:
"[(Fieldless) On a billet fesswise vert, seven annulets interlaced in fess Or.] This is returned for style problems. First, a billet is a shape used for heraldic display. This appears to be a display of Vert, seven annulets interlaced in fess Or. As precedent notes: 
  We do not register fieldless badges which appear to be independent forms of armorial display. Charges such as lozenges, billets, and roundels are all both standard heraldic charges and "shield shapes" for armorial display. ...
Therefore, a "shield shape" which is also a standard heraldic charge will be acceptable as a fieldless badge in a plain tincture, as long as the tincture is not one of the plain tinctures that is protected armory in the SCA. This explicitly overturns the precedent "We do not normally register fieldless badges consisting only of forms of armorial display, such as roundels, lozenges and delfs in plain tinctures, since in use the shape does not appear to be a charge, but rather the field itself" (LoAR January 1998).Note that this does not change our long-standing policy about such "shield shape" charges used in fieldless badges if the tincture is not plain (thus, divided or with a field treatment), or if the charge is itself charged. Such armory will continue to be returned for the appearance of an independent form of armorial display.[Solveig Throndardottir, 04/02, A-Æthelmearc] [Brion Gennadyevich Gorodin, 07/05, R-Trimaris]"

So I suspect that your proposed badge would be considered the same as "Vert, three plates".

Maybe Teceangl or someone can find additional information on this.

Alicia


  Now, I get one CD for being fieldless.  I have a CD against anything with a different primary charge (pale vert).  Now if I understand this then, even though fieldless is a tincture difference I also have a CD against other tinctures of Pale.  So anything that was pale sable etc does not conflict. 

  So I'm looking for other pale verts with secondary or tertiary charges. 

     Argent semy of oak leaves, on a pale vert a fleur-de-lys Or. 
     Argent semy of strawberry leaves, on  a pale vert, a wolf salient argent. 
     Argent semy-de-lys azure, on a pale vert a Celtic cross  argent. 
     Argent, on a pale vert a crescent above three acorns Or. 
  There are a number of these that are similar, but am I correct in thinking that by having a different tertiary charge I have a CD? 

     Argent, on a pale vert between in chief two wolves combattant sable three mullets  Or. 
  There are also a number like this with charges to the sides of the pale.  I assume that they would be secondary charges?  As long as they don't have the same tertiary charge as mine I am totally fine, correct? 

  Am I missing anything? 

  -TdC 

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