[tirrigh-heralds] Ordinary confusion
Judy Harcus
jdharcus at telus.net
Wed Jun 2 07:08:39 PDT 2010
I've run into the unknown records before but usually it works the next
time I check. Try again and see if you still have the problem. It's
not showing up for me.
Compass stars, compass roses, mullets and suns all have the potential of
conflicting with each other.
A compass star doesn't conflict with a mullet of the default 5 points
but will with all others.
Compass stars also conflict with suns, so you need to check there as well.
If the compass star is on a field, you need to check against compass
roses on the same field (you get one CD between a compass star and a
compass rose but need a second; fieldless or change of field will give
you the second one).
Relevant precedents:
[comparing a mullet of six points vs. a compass star] There is ... [no
CD] for type of the primary charge:
There is no type difference between the compass stars and the
mullets of six points. Because of the unusual (and non-period)
design of compass stars, with their four greater and four lesser
points, they are considered as variants of both mullets of four
points and mullets of eight points. There is no type difference
between mullets of six points and mullets of eight points and,
hence, no difference between mullets of six points and compass
stars. [Brian Sigfridsson von Niedersachsen, 07/03, R-Atenveldt]
[Mara Sutherland, LoAR 10/2004, Meridies-R]
<>[mullets vs. compass stars] ... a second CD between the default
mullets of five points and compass stars. RfS X.4.e states that "A
charge not used in period armory will be considered different in type if
its shape in normal depiction is significantly different." Compass stars
are not used in period armory and thus must be compared with mullets of
five points on visual grounds. They have sufficient visual difference to
be given a CD. [Asad de Barcelona, 10/03
<http://sca.org/heraldry/loar/2003/10/03-10lar.html>, A-Æthelmearc]
[there's ...no difference between suns and multi-pointed mullets ---
which includes compass stars" [Friedrich von Rabenstein, 6/93, R-Caid]
Precedent holds that a compass star within an annulet has no difference
from a compass rose: "There is no difference given between a compass
rose and a compass star within an annulet" (LoAR June 2000).
You may also want to note:
... there is no difference between a compass star and a riven star per
the LoAR of April 2001. [Iamys of Loch Cairn, 01/02
<http://sca.org/heraldry/loar/2002/01/02-01lar.html>, R-Meridies]
Alicia
Wulfstan Hrafnsson wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> Insomnia tonight turned into a chance to get some work done. I'm
> running a conflict check for a lady who would like to submit the
> following device:
>
> Azure, three compass stars and a chief triangular Or.
>
> I decided to work on the stars first, and looked under "Star - Compass
> Star", which referred me to "Mullet".
>
> Looking under "Mullet - Or" (including Charged and Uncharged, 1, 2 and
> 3, and sole- and group primary and secondary) invariably brought me a
> long list of "unknown record" entries with what looked like fragments
> of blazon terms and a handful of readable entries. I'm not sure what
> to do with these unknown records, how to get past them, or what, if
> anything, they mean. So I'm stumped for the moment on that one.
>
> She would also like to submit as a badge:
>
> Azure, a compass star Or.
>
> But sadly, it's taken:
>
> * Paul of Sunriver
> <http://sca.uwaterloo.ca/heraldry/OandA/oanda_name.cgi?p=Paul%20of%20Sunriver>
>
> o The following device associated with this name was
> registered in August of 1982 (via the West)
> <http://sca.uwaterloo.ca/heraldry/OandA/oanda_date.cgi?y1=1982&m1=August&y2=1982&m2=August&kW=checked>:
> Azure
> <http://sca.uwaterloo.ca/heraldry/OandA/glossary.cgi?p=azure>,
> a compass star
> <http://sca.uwaterloo.ca/heraldry/OandA/glossary.cgi?p=compass+star>
> Or <http://sca.uwaterloo.ca/heraldry/OandA/glossary.cgi?p=Or>.
>
> Alternately, we'd talked about a fieldless compass star Or, but as far
> as I can see that's still only 1 CD from the above. Maybe doable with
> a 'permission to conflict' letter if we can track the gentle down?
>
> I've also suggested (just tonight):
>
> (Fieldless), a compass star per pale azure and Or.
>
> I think that should get past the nearest similarity I found:
>
> * Jaida bint Salim
> <http://sca.uwaterloo.ca/heraldry/OandA/oanda_name.cgi?p=Jaida%20bint%20Salim>
>
> o The following badge associated with this name was
> registered in January of 2002 (via the Middle)
> <http://sca.uwaterloo.ca/heraldry/OandA/oanda_date.cgi?y1=2002&m1=January&y2=2002&m2=January&kM=checked>:
> (Fieldless
> <http://sca.uwaterloo.ca/heraldry/OandA/glossary.cgi?p=fieldless>)
> A mullet
> <http://sca.uwaterloo.ca/heraldry/OandA/glossary.cgi?p=mullet>
> per pale
> <http://sca.uwaterloo.ca/heraldry/OandA/glossary.cgi?p=per+pale>
> azure
> <http://sca.uwaterloo.ca/heraldry/OandA/glossary.cgi?p=azure>
> and vert
> <http://sca.uwaterloo.ca/heraldry/OandA/glossary.cgi?p=vert>
>
> (1 CD for fieldless, 1 CD for 50% or more tincture difference)
>
> I've also suggested a different tincture division (per fess or per
> bend) to hopefully get another CD as a buffer.
>
> Thoughts - especially on all those "unknown records" would be appreciated.
>
> Wulfstan
>
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>
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