[tirrigh-heralds] Name and device help, please?

[Judy Harcus]

The ship could be designated instead as a 'caravel'.

Alicia

Morel Carr Zupanic wrote:

> Wow, thank you so much!  I will try to get more info on her name 
> tomorrow. As pathetic as it may be, I am about ready to hit the sack.
>  
> Dori
>  
> ************************************
> The device "Or, a ship in full sail between three cinquefoil vert all 
> within a double tressure sable" appears to be clear.
> As far as I can tell, it's clear without the tressure as well (there 
> are very few vert ships).
>
> As for the name -
>
> Appendix A of SENA says double given names are found in Italian names, 
> so that's no problem.
>
> Documenting Alessandra is fairly easy.  It can be found in the 
> following documents:
> http://heraldry.sca.org/laurel/names/italian.html  Italian Renaissance 
> Women's Names by Rhian Lyth of Blackmoor Vale (Jo Lori Drake)
> http://www.s-gabriel.org/names/juliana/16thcvenice.html  Names from 
> Sixteenth Century Venice by Juliana de Luna (Julia Smith)
> http://www.s-gabriel.org/names/juliana/condado/womensalpha.html  A 
> Listing of all Women’s Given Names from the Condado Section of the 
> Florence Catasto of 1427 by Juliana de Luna (Julia Smith)
>
> I have not found Lucianna anywhere.  The closest is Lucia (found in 
> all three documents above) and Luchina (found in the last document above).
>
> I have not found Giancomo but have found Giacomo (without the 'n') as 
> a common male given name (also Giano, Giacomino, and several 
> variation).  It appears patronymic bynames were used but I'm not clear 
> on the syntax (Giacomino as a given names seems to turn into Giacomini 
> as a byname, so Giacomo might be Giacomi as a patronymic byname) and 
> whether it should be preceded by 'di'.   Appendix A of SENA says 
> Italian patronymics are "Marked (as di B), multi-generational, 
> unmarked, Latinized",  "Italian is incredibly variable in period, with 
> names from Venice, Tuscany, and the south all significantly 
> different", "Latinized patronymic bynames usually are just the 
> father's name in the genitive form, without filius/filia" and "Family 
> names typically modify a patronym or byname by removing the last vowel 
> (if there is one) and adding –i. Unmodified forms are found as well".
>
> I found these in:
> http://www.s-gabriel.org/names/juliana/condado/mensalpha.html  A 
> Listing of all Men's Given Names from the Condado Section of the 
> Florence Catasto of 1427 by Juliana de Luna (Julia Smith)
> http://www.ellipsis.cx/~liana/names/italian/venicegivalpha.html 
> <http://www.ellipsis.cx/%7Eliana/names/italian/venicegivalpha.html>  
> Fifteenth Century Venetian Masculine Names: Given Names Alphabetically 
> by Sara L. Uckelman known in the SCA as Aryanhwy merch Catmael
> http://www.s-gabriel.org/names/maridonna/milaneseNotaries/  Milanese 
> Notaries 1396-1635 by Maridonna Benvenuti
> http://www.stg.brown.edu/projects/tratte/doc/name1.html  LIST OF GIVEN 
> NAMES (NAME1) FOUND IN THE TRE MAGGIORI
> http://www.stg.brown.edu/projects/tratte/doc/SURNAM1.html  LIST OF 
> SURNAMES (SURNAM1) IN THE TRE MAGGIORI
>
> http://www.stg.brown.edu/projects/tratte/doc/n-names.html  A Note on 
> Names. - Surnames. (SURNAM1, SURNAM2) says:
> "Surnames were often derived from patronymics (Alberti from Albero, 
> Capponi from Cappone, Ridolfi from Ridolfo), although this was not 
> automatic. The Capponi for instance, whose first prior was in 1287, 
> adopted a stable surname only toward the middle of the fourteenth 
> century. "
>
> There is one of the De Felice Italian name books in the Tir Righ 
> Heraldic Library (I can't remember if it is first names or surnames - 
> Dizionario dei [nomi or cognomi] italiani).  Perhaps ask Aline to 
> check and see if any of the names is in it, and what it says (it's in 
> Italian so someone may need to translate).
>
> That's the best I can do without more information on where she found 
> the name elements.
> Alicia Red Flame
>
>>  
>
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